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#1
09-08-16, 03:21 PM
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L R D G......special custom made.....
© IWM (EPH 6345) L R D G
Cap badge for the Long Range Desert Group 'manufactured' by Arger whilst POW in Germany. Badge, pin & felt. Circular lead L.R.D.G. (Long Range Desert Group) cap badge with scorpion carved in the centre over the initials 'L.R.D.G.', the badge is backed by a small circle of green felt, with bent gold-coloured pin. http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib...7237/large.jpg http://www.lrdg.org/images/PartofYpatrol.JPG Part of Y Patrol April/May 1941 Source Marjorie Springford, Long Range Desert Group Preservation Society. On truck left to right: Davies; Wise - gunner; Standing in front, left to right: Alan Dennif - 2nd navigator; 'Hutch' Hutchins - gunner; Hurst; 'Scotty' - fitter; Arthur Arger - gunner; John Miller Kerr - fitter/driver; Stan 'Sandy' Sandle - RAMC; Bartlett - driver; sgt 'Carney' Carningham - fitter/driver/gunner; Harry Chard - gunner/driver; Dawes - gunner; 'Ali' Barber - signaller; 'Lofty' Carr - patrol navigator; 'Jungle' Graham - gunner. Compared to ... © IWM (INS 43109) A metal cap badge, consisting of a scorpion within a circular roundel, worn by a member of the LRDG. This badge is attached to a LRDG Keffiyeh currently on display. http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib...3675/large.jpg © IWM (INS 43110) http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib...3676/large.jpg ADDED INFORMATIONS: History note The designer of the badge was Gunner Grimsey. The circlet ( 35 mm ) represents the wheels on which the unit relied and the scorpion was both typical of the desert environment and of the "stings" that could be inflicted on the enemy. An earlier version of the badge that included a scroll and the letters NZ is said to have been produced but not approved. The story that different patrols had their badges made of different metals is apparently untrue. (As per IWM)
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese. Last edited by Voltigeur; 11-08-16 at 03:48 PM. 
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#2
10-08-16, 07:04 AM
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I wonder if the Keffiyeh is post war?
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#3
10-08-16, 08:28 AM
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Very interesting
I am not an expert on LRDG variant patterns but though that in most cases legs touching the tail were to be avoided ... the last one you illustrate appears to defy this general rule - thoughts appreciated ... © IWM (INS 43110) http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib...3676/large.jpg I hope the link works - if not it is the same as the last one in Jo's post (first post in this thread) Not to muddy the water - but - David Lloyd Owen passed a badge on to a friend of mine well after the war at a vehicle rally - he was very impressed with a restored LRDG vehicle my contact had worked upon. Please see images below - I have been informed the badge was an LRDG Association badge - legs touching tail. Thoughts appreciated Mike
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#4
10-08-16, 09:44 AM
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The badge shown with the Keffiyeh is to the best of my knowledge identical to the copies found on eBay. It has all the components that cast doubt such as a double rim with seeding in between, the tail touching the leg and the solid LRDG lettering.
Jack
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#5
10-08-16, 10:38 AM
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Russel King Badges
The badge people often refer to as 'fakes' were made by a chap called Russell King in the 1970s for the British LRDG Association....i am sure they are still being produced by others. I believe five variations have been identified of wartime badges...some with tail touching, some with defined v's on the scorpion legs etc....
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#7
10-08-16, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
It is possibly an association badge and maybe the reason why DLO had it on his person to give to your friend at the rally. I do like the badge and if I saw one for sale at the right price I would buy it. The badge looks to have voided letters filled with cleaning residue, are you able to confirm this Mike? Cheers, Jack
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#8
10-08-16, 11:59 AM
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Hello Jack
You are right - the 'Association' badge [images above] does have void lettering LRDG - bunged up with cleaning material - so it is good to confirm it is voided as you suggest. It is better quality than a lot of imitations I have seen. Mike
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#9
10-08-16, 02:30 PM
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You might like to take a look at this http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...palestine+agyl. As I understand it the LRDG kit was issued from both the PP and TJFF stores. You'll see the agyl is rather different to the one in this post, but perhaps it's a TJFF one? Just as a point of interest TJFF officers had fine khaki silk head-dress with a gold and black agyl.
Last edited by Eddie Parks; 11-08-16 at 02:53 PM.
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#10
10-08-16, 02:58 PM
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Bedouin 'agal' (headrope), Arab Legion and T.E. Lawrence.
From the IWM,.........
© IWM (UNI 12239) Bedouin 'agal' (headrope) worn by an Arab tribesman who fought against the Turks during the Arab Revolt 1916-18. The 'agal' was worn as part of the traditional Arab headress in combination with the keffiyeh (headcloth). http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib...2094/large.jpg © IWM (UNI 13414) The white metal cap badge is of the type used by the Arab Legion until 1956 when, from that date, it was produced in gilt metal. The Arab Legion was created by the British in 1920 and although the later Transjordan obtained independence from Britain in 1946, the Jordan Arab Army continued to be dressed and equipped in the British style from its formation in 1956 until the mid-1960s. Although retaining the distinctive headdress, the Jordan Arab Army appeared more smarter and 'regimental' than other Arab armies. http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib...2356/large.jpg © IWM (UNI 12240) This item of headdress is associated with the First World War service of T E Lawrence. Working between November 1916 and October 1918 as the political liaison officer and technical advisor to Emir Feisal's Arab forces in the revolt against the Turks, Lawrence adopted local costume as a practical necessity. He later commented illuminatingly: '...The army uniform was abominable when camel-riding or when sitting on the ground; and Arab things, which I learned to manage before the war, were cleaner and more decent in the desert.' The 'agal' fitted over the 'keffiyeh' (headcloth) like a crown to stabilize the ensemble. http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib...d%2520insignia
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
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#11
10-08-16, 07:36 PM
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One of the many headdresses of TE Lawrence, with provenance, now in a private collection.
Keith
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I collect badges and medals of London Transport employees and its predecessor and successor companies, bus, tram, trolleybus, underground railway.
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#12
11-08-16, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
I am in agreement with Monty Cassino that the badge on the Keffiyeh is an exact match to a badge that is officially recorded as an LRDG Association badge, sadly it is also one of the most copied LRDG badge types. I have a document signed by David Lloyd Owen which identifies the very same badge as being post war, oddly he did not draw to attention that the touching tail was the tell-tale sign of it being a copy, instead he condemned it because it had “fancy work on the circle.” I have lots of photos of the personal collection of David Lloyd Owen, including many LRDG hat badges and titles that were “Remaining in the QM’s Stores of the LRDG when disbanded in 1945.” The badge that was given to your friend does not match the LRDG Association badge, nor does it match any of the LRDG QM’s Stores badges, but it does closely match an LRDG badge that was in David Lloyd Owen’s personal collection. You mention that you “have been informed the badge was an LRDG Association badge - legs touching tail” I am interested if anybody can confirm for fact that your friends badge is an Association badge? Or is it just that someone is guessing that it is it is an Association badge?
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#13
11-08-16, 08:56 AM
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#14
11-08-16, 02:16 PM
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my thoughts are the one you show is good....(not the IWM one which is the King/copy) and i would be happy having it in my collection..i have a similar one which came from the son of a LRDG veteran..
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#15
11-08-16, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
And, of course, they will have bought items in the souk and traded for them.
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