Border Regiment militia v Volunteer Battalion badges

[Alan O]

The militia badges have been widely faked but they removed one too many honours! The originals retained the central Arros del moly..thing while the fakes removed this as well as the honours on the cross' arms.

Here is what I believe may be correct:


Attribution
- Regular badges - batttlehonours and 'arroyo dos' motto.

- Militia badges - no battlehonours and 'Honi Soit' motto.

- VB - no battlehonours and Honi soit motto with VB title scroll below.

- Fake - no honours no motto.

Examples to back up the theory
For some evidence here is a named 1st VB HPC with the 'Honi Soit' motto.

http://www.britisharmybadges.com/vie...h=52120&phqu=2

A 2nd VB collar with the 'Honi Soit'

http://www.gnmilitaria.co.uk/viewpho...h=17871&phqu=2

There are named 1st and 2nd VB cap badges with the South Africa Honours (so 1905-08). These too have the 'Honi Soit' centre. These were presumably worn on the newly introduced Forage Caps and replaced either Glengarry/FSC caps and smaller (no SA honour) badges or possibly the slouch (smasher) hats that were all the vogue in the VB following the Boer War.

Here are 2 militia HPCs with the 'Arros Dos'. Both are officers so I would be grateful if anyone has a picture of an ORs one.

Kings Crown http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive...6&lot_id=81367
Queen Victoria's Crown https://www.spink.com/lot-descriptio...id=13003000359

Note that the HPC has had the 'CHINA' regimentally erased as the Militia were not entitled to it.

There also exist collars were the regular pattern globe and brass dragon but without the word 'China'. This illogicallity mirrors the TF Glosters losing the word 'Egypt' but retaining the sphinx cap badge!

[Alan O]

http://www.sole.org.uk/ssoldiers.htm

A particualrly good set of 2nd VB border regt groups in 1900 and upon their return in 1901.

Note the collars on the plain (khaki?) tunics in the 1901 lower photo are not the wreath and dragon ones shown in Churchill but the same shape as the ones listed as militia. They echo the post 1905 2nd VB collar linked above in GN Militaria but without the SA scroll. No cap badges appear to be worn.

The top photo dated 1900 in red tunic may well be the 1st pattern dragon ones which the regulars replaced c.1895? Unfortunately it is unclear what colour are but Churchill attributed the brass (no China) ones to the militia bn and w/m (no china) to the VB.

Clearly these were replaced by the 2nd Vb Bn in 1901 (some 5 years after the regulars) I would suggest that they are Honi Soit ones but whether these were the same for the militia or they used Regular ones is unknown.

Honi Soit Collars:

http://www.deadspartan.co.uk/viewpho...h=55758&phqu=2

[John Mulcahy]

If it helps - attached from the RACD list of changes the approved patterns for 2 VB Border

Helmet Plate & Glengarry 1888
FSC Badge 1896

[Alan O]

John

Fantastic.

I do wonder whether the 1st VB wore the same badges with a 1st numeral or whether it had no additional scrolls because it was the 1st? There was precedence for this in other VBs.

Another suggestion is that the scrolless badges were worn by the 3rd Vb which was raised in 1900.

More research to do.

Just when I thought I was uncertain enough I found this post1905 militia officer's badge - with SA honours in the centre!

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/au...6-a42500036860

[Alan O]

This 1st VB HPC has the lower title scroll. It is not too unreasonable that the centre had this scroll when used as a glengarry badge. The HPC is one piece so any Glangarry badge would have to be made for that hat as the HPC do not seem to have been separate (interchangeable) as the regular ones were.

[Paul Spellman]

I thought I would show these if they help,
I already had the 2nd VB Offrs Glengarry badge on the left but I picked up the Militia Offrs SP Glengary badge and the VB Bn's Badge on Friday,
I must admit I am a bit confused about the status of the 1900 raised 3rd Bn wether they where classed as regular militia or VB,
In 1908 they transferred to the Special Reserve???
Paul

[Paul Spellman]

Rear image

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

I must admit I am a bit confused about the status of the 1900 raised 3rd Bn wether they where classed as regular militia or VB,
In 1908 they transferred to the Special Reserve???
Paul

You seem to mix to different battalions.

. Royal Cumberland Militia > 1881: 3rd Battalion, The Border Regiment > 1908: 3rd (Reserve) Battalion, The Border Regiment.

. 1900: 3rd (Cumberland) Volunteer Battalion, The Border Regiment > 1908: 5th (Cumberland) Battalion, The Border Regiment (TF).