Connaught Rangers Cap Badge

[Col Blacker]

Hi,

Can anyone confirm if the attched pictures of a Connaught Rangers badge is genuine?

The strings are voided and it has a strengthening copper bar added below the crown and main body of the badge on the back.

It is this bar I am unsure about?

Thanking-you in advance

Sean.

[Luke H]

It looks great to me.

What makes you unsure about the reinforcing bar? They're pretty common as it goes as I believe the crowns kept breaking off.

Luke

[jeanpit-frenchy]

this is my badge

pisture is not very good, difficult to see the renforcing bar

[Col Blacker]

Just not sure - it remined me of modern copper electrical wire, but maybe I'm just being paranoid after being stung a couple of times with restrikes!!

Cheers

Sean

[Luke H]

Nah don't worry the badge is definitly fine.

They seem to vary a lot actually do reinforcing strips, I think they used whatever was knocking about in the factory at the time... I've seen copper wire, brass wire and even strips of brass. It must have varied factory to factory too.

Cheers,

Luke

[Alan O]

This is my one I have yet to find a better example to make up for the polishing.

Alan

[Luke H]

Alan,

I picked this absolute peach of a Connaught Rangers up at Farnham yesterday. It is infact from the same die as Sean's, copper wire et al (so I guess I would say it was real ).

Luke

[Sonofacqms]

Always difficult to say unless you have the badge in your hand, Sean's badge does not seem to have much detail in the crown from the reverse pic, also the edges of the scroll seem very thick, possibly the badge was struck from a heavier gauge metal than ones I have seen. As for the reinforcing strips/rods/bars, they seem to alter with every badge, possibly done by an armourer after issue.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

Always difficult to say unless you have the badge in your hand, Sean's badge does not seem to have much detail in the crown from the reverse pic, also the edges of the scroll seem very thick, possibly the badge was struck from a heavier gauge metal than ones I have seen. As for the reinforcing strips/rods/bars, they seem to alter with every badge, possibly done by an armourer after issue.

Sonofacqms,

Mines exactly the same as Sean's, the badge is pretty weighty and is struck into a fairly thick gague metal (a bit like QVC Royal Irish Reg badges) but it's absolutely 110% genuine and seeing as the crown is so very deep I think its an earlyish one at that.

Cheers,

Luke

[boots and saddles]

I always had an interest in the south Irish badges (English Army) what period were they raised and for what reason? When were they disbanded? Where they totally made up of Irishmen (I don't imagine the officers were). Just curious. A nice small but expensive collection I imagine.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by boots and saddles

I always had an interest in the south Irish badges (English Army) what period were they raised and for what reason? When were they disbanded? Where they totally made up of Irishmen (I don't imagine the officers were). Just curious. A nice small but expensive collection I imagine.

BS,

I can't begin to answer your question about the roots of raisings of all Regiments and volunteer forces from the now Republic as I don't know nearly enough so I'll leave that to someone else. I do know that the Royal Irish Regt (not the one we have now) was raised in 1684 but not initially of Irish connection if memory serves.

The Royal Munster Fusiliers were initially from the Honourable East India Company's 101st Regiment of Foot (Royal Bengal Fusiliers) and 104th Regiment of Foot (Bengal Fusiliers) and were renamed when control of these regts transferred to the crown in 1861.

The Leinster Regiment started life as the 100th Regiment of Foot (Prince of Wales's Royal Canadian) and the 109th. The former being raised in Canada as an expression of loyality at the time of the India mutiny (Good old Canadian's)

The Dubs again had their origins in the East India Coy's regts 102nd Royal Madras Fusiliers and the 103rd Royal Bombay Fusiliers.

As for when they were disbanded all regiments from the republic handed in their colours at Windsor castle in 1922 on creation of the Irish free state, this included: Royal Irish Regiment; Royal Munster Fusiliers; Connaught Rangers and Leinster Regiment.

As for their composition of man power I cannot help but am sure someone vastly more knowledgable than me on the forum will know.

Cheers,

Luke

I forgot to mention that I read in Gaylor that these East India Company regiments were European regiments meaning they drew their strength from European men as opposed to the native east Indians.

[Alan O]

I recently found this one. It was part of a WW1 collection being sold in Australia. It was in good company with a lot of genuine badges so I took a punt.

Unlike the usual ones it has solid strings but a void under the crown unlike the usual copies. The slider is a nice old pattern similiar to some other WW1 badges I have. No reinforcing bar to the slider mind you.

WW1 variant or a repro?

Alan

[cbuehler]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

I recently found this one. It was part of a WW1 collection being sold in Australia. It was in good company with a lot of genuine badges so I took a punt.

Unlike the usual ones it has solid strings but a void under the crown unlike the usual copies. The slider is a nice old pattern similiar to some other WW1 badges I have. No reinforcing bar to the slider mind you.

WW1 variant or a repro?

Alan

I saw this particular badge and the others from the auction in Australia as well. I was initially excited by some of them, but I did note that so many of those badges offered were of a strangely poor quality with strike flaws and other oddities that I have never seen on genuine examples before. I became wary.
I dont know what to make of this particular Connaught Rangers badge. As mentioned, there is a void under the crown which not normally present on the known repops, but is otherwise nothing like the badges commonly held to be genuine. Will await your report once you have it in hand or perhaps Mulcahy can chime in here.

CB

[Toby Purcell]

INFANTRY OF THE LINE
In 1881 the infantry regiments were restructured, most of the single battalion regiments numbered above 25 were paired up to become two battalion regiments, most of the Irish regiments also had three militia regiments affiliated as the 3rd 4th and 5th battalions (the exception to this were the two rifle regiments). The system of numbering regiments was abandoned in favour of names.

ROYAL IRISH REGIMENT
Formerly the 18th (The Royal Irish) Regiment of Foot.
1st Bn: Raised in Ireland for the purposes of garrisoning during the time of the commonwealth and brought into the English establishment in 1689 as the 18th. A second battalion was formed in 1802 and disbanded in 1814. 2nd Bn: Raised in 1858 with volunteers from Irish militia regiments.
3rd Bn: Formerly the Wexford Militia. Staff HQ at Wexford.
4th Bn: Formerly the North Tipperary Light Infantry Militia. Staff HQ at Clonmel.
5th Bn: Formerly the Kilkenny Fusiliers Militia. Staff HQ at Kilkenny.
The regiment was disbanded in 1922.


THE CONNAUGHT RANGERS
1st Bn: Formerly the 88th (Connaught Rangers) Regiment of Foot. Raised in Connaught in 1793. A second battalion was raised 1802-5 but disbanded at Co. Clare 1n 1816.
2nd Bn: Formerly the 94th Regiment of Foot. Raised from the half pay list of the then disbanded Scotch Brigade at Glasgow in 1824. Although soldiers were recruited from all over Britain they came principally from Edinburgh and Co. Cork.
3rd Bn: A combination of the former South Mayo Rifle Militia and the North Mayo Militia. Staff HQ at Castlebar.
4th Bn: Formerly the Galway Militia. Staff HQ at Galway.
5th Bn: Formerly the Roscommon Militia. Staff HQ at Boyle.
The regiment was disbanded in 1922.


THE PRINCE OF WALES'S LEINSTER REGIMENT (ROYAL CANADIANS)
1st Bn: Formerly the 100th (Prince of Wales's Royal Canadian) Regiment of Foot. Raised in Canada as a volunteer regiment, 1857-8, for service in India following the mutiny. As it happened the mutiny was over before they even got as far as England.
2nd Bn: Formerly the 109th Bombay Infantry. Raised by the East India Company as the 3rd Bombay European Infantry in 1853 and absorbed into the army as the 109th in 1861.
3rd Bn: Formerly the King's County Militia.
4th Bn: Formerly the Queen's County Militia.
5th Bn: Formerly the Royal Meath Militia.
The regiment was disbanded in 1922.


ROYAL MUNSTER FUSILIERS
1st Bn: Formerly the 101st Royal Bengal Fusiliers. This battalion was formed as one of the old East India Company regiments and was raised by Clive himself in 1759 as the Bengal European Regiment. It went through many incarnations and spawned many other battalions before emerging as the 1st Bengal Fusiliers after the first Sikh war. On amalgamation with the regular army in 1861 it became the 101st.
2nd Bn: Formerly the 104th Bengal Fusiliers. Raised during the first Afghan war (1839) as the 2nd Bengal European regiment, an offspring of the Bengal European Regiment. On amalgamation with the regular army in 1861 it became the 104th.
3rd Bn: Formerly the South Cork Light Infantry Militia. Staff HQ at Kinsale.
4th Bn: Formerly the Kerry Militia. Staff HQ at Tralee.
5th Bn: Formerly the Royal Limerick Militia (Fusiliers). Staff HQ at Limerick.
The regiment was disbanded in 1922.


ROYAL DUBLIN FUSILIERS
1st Bn: Formerly the 102nd Royal Madras Fusiliers. This battalion can be considered to be the oldest of the East India Company regiments being formed in 1748 from even older independent companies as the Madras European Regiment. It had a similar history to the Bengal European Regiment and was amalgamated with the regular army in 1868.
2nd Bn: Formerly the 103rd Royal Bombay Fusiliers. As a battalion the Bombay Europeans can trace their lineage back to 1661, they later became the 1st Bombay European Regiment and were amalgamated with the regular army in 1861.
3rd Bn: Formerly the Kildare Militia Rifles. Staff HQ at Nass.
4th Bn: Formerly the Royal Dublin City Militia (Queen's Own Royal Regiment). Staff HQ at Dublin.
5th Bn: Formerly the Dublin County light Infantry Militia. Staff HQ at Dublin.
The regiment was disbanded in 1922.




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[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

I saw this particular badge and the others from the auction in Australia as well. I was initially excited by some of them, but I did note that so many of those badges offered were of a strangely poor quality with strike flaws and other oddities that I have never seen on genuine examples before. I became wary.
I dont know what to make of this particular Connaught Rangers badge. As mentioned, there is a void under the crown which not normally present on the known repops, but is otherwise nothing like the badges commonly held to be genuine. Will await your report once you have it in hand or perhaps Mulcahy can chime in here.

CB

I am afraid that I cannot help much here, I have not yet seen an example of a Connaught's badge with solid strings that I would think is genuine.

That, however does not mean that one does not exist. I have (and know) of good examples with both voiding and solid areas under the crown , but both have voided strings.

I think that this shall take someone doing the same depth of research that 'KLR" is doing on the King's Rgt to elucidate. When next back in London I hope to look at the sealed patterns in the IWM and will look out for this variant - does anyone else have input?

John