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  #1  
Old 14-03-17, 11:53 AM
wasaraftype wasaraftype is offline
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Default Unusual ATC lapel badge

I have just obtained a non-standard Air Training Corps lapel badge which seems unusual to me.

It is of the standard type, has a crowned top and is made by Gaunt of London. It has the 2 lug fitting to the rear which is normal for this kind of badge.

Some time ago someone sent me images of a similar badge to ask if I had seen one before, and if so, did I know of its use.

I hadn't seen one and could only hazard a guess it may have been a trial badge that was not adopted.

If anyone has any answers about this badge I would be very grateful.


The images posted show this badge alongside a normal type.



Regards
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  #2  
Old 28-12-17, 06:10 AM
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gjks gjks is offline
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Original ATC cadet cap badge?
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  #3  
Old 28-12-17, 03:32 PM
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David Tremain David Tremain is offline
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The only pictures I've seen of those badges are enameled.
David
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  #4  
Old 29-12-17, 07:35 AM
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engr9266 engr9266 is offline
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These are my examples...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 26 ATC instructor gilt#.jpg (68.1 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 27 ATC civilian instructor gilt#.jpg (68.4 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 28 ATC Welfare gilt#.jpg (66.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 29 ATC CHAPLIN silver-gilt#.jpg (61.9 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 30 ATC wm-enamel#.jpg (64.2 KB, 20 views)
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  #5  
Old 15-01-18, 03:30 AM
Harlequin Harlequin is offline
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The gilt ATC lapel badges with astral crowns were worn for a brief time by RAFVR officers (Training branch, serving with the ATC) in the immediate post-war period up until 1947..

Prior to this, 1941-45, the full-height standard 'VR' lapel badges were worn, with an additional oval cloth 'ATC' cuff-badge worn above the rank-braid. (Before this, ADCC officers had wore silver 'C's on the lapels of their adapted No1 HSD, to indicate Cadet officer status)

From 1947 to 2017, the familiar 'VRT' lapel badges were worn, in decreasing order of size (mirroring the size reductions over time for RAuxAF and RAFVR 'A's and 'VR's).

These have now been replaced by brand-new 'RAFAC' collar titles, within the last month-and-a-half....or will be, once supplies reach the affected Cadet Forces personnel.
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Old 15-01-18, 07:04 PM
SAS1 SAS1 is offline
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With the ATC formed in 1941, officers serving within it became members of the RAFVR and as such wore the 'VR' collar badge as you say (along with the circular cloth ATC patch as a distinguishing badge above the rank lace).

However the next point is a little inaccurate. I have copies of the dress regulations for the ATC as they were issued through the war and they confirm the circular ATC specific (and uncrowned) collar badge was introduced in 1944 (around April if memory serves) , which was retained until the changeover to the VRT collars in 1947. Use of the circular uncrowned collar badge during the last year of the war is also confirmed by dated photos and a tunic I have.

The crowned version I've never seen anywhere else then here and am baffled as to its use. However one thought is a foreign ATC unit (even though it's British made), the Rhodesian ATC having an identical cap badge to the Brits, as did the Indian ATC albeit with the addition 'Indian' to 'Air Training Corps'. Although the IATC had an almost identical shoulder badge too I have few other details of uniform.
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Old 16-01-18, 12:47 AM
Harlequin Harlequin is offline
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In Sqn Ldr Lamond's official document "History of the Air Training Corps 1938-1983" Ch1 the lapel badges are described to as being crownless.

However, importantly, on the left-to-right chronological sequence of small lapel insignia line-drawings, it shows large VR titles; crowned ATC crests; medium VRT titles.

I also believe that I have seen both types of ATC gilt crests (crowned and uncrowned) both in photographs and as physical examples, though obviously instances of either are extremely rare.

That document also disagrees with both of our understandings as to dates for changes in types of badge. It states brass lapel VRs (plus cloth ATCs) 1941-1947; brass lapel ATC crests 1947-49; brass lapel VRTs 1949-1983 (or, effectively, 2018....but they are still being worn by AEF pilots).

I don't agree with the document's dates, I could be wrong about that, but...I do have full extracts from the relevant official AIR memos from Kew, somewhere....so, I can at least settle for certain the date when the VRTs were introduced (and perhaps more)
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Old 16-01-18, 08:51 AM
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The introduction of the VRT's is generally accepted as 1947 across the board. The older VRs were abolished in the RAF officially in January 1943 as by then the vast majority of RAF Personnel were VR anyway (in for the duration), the ATC being the exception, which is possibly why they got their own design.

If you have photos of the crowned circular badges in use I'd like to see them as I've not seen reference of any such type anywhere in 40 years of collecting and research!
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