Westminster officer's badges

[DavidS]

Attached pic. shows a couple of officer's badges for the Westminsters, collars for same, an 'oddball' cast Westminster badge and, for the heck of it, a 1st British Columbia Regiment officer's badge.

Of the 2 copper officer's patterns, one has a pin back and the other standard lugs. Both have very bright gilt on the reverse side. The pin-back badge apparently came from the Westminster Regiment museum in trade for some other items, back in the early 60s. This badge was described on the Canadian Soldier (Canuck) site as a fake for some time, until someone wrote to say 'Hey, why do you call that badge a fake? My father was an officer in the Westminsters and that was the badge he wore...".

The same person who wrote the Canuck also mentioned the 'cast badge'. The one pictured is a 2-piece badge, roughly cast, and the 'gold' crown/beaver at centre is actually part of the silver casting, and is painted gold. Rather than being a different base than the usual brass Westminster badge -- which the copper faced ones are -- it is molded from the standard brass badge. The badge itself shows every indication of having been worn, as do the copper faced versions, which are 3-piece badges. The lugged copper version still had its original cotter pin and has wear marks inside the lugs.

At the Easter Calgary show this spring, I talked to Chris Brooker about the cast badge and he thought it might be a mechanic's or machinist's proficiency exercise, like the cast Technical Corps badges. His idea was that they would do these up, wear them on parade, and if they made it past the RSM, they passed.

I've written the Westminster museum and historian a couple of times looking for info on this badge, but have never heard anything from them. If anyone has any info on either of these styles, I would certainly appreciate it.

[Bill A]

David, do you have a link to that page on the Canuck site? Michael Dorosh has been restructuring the site and the pages on repro's / unidentified seem to have disappeared.

[Dwayne H]

My example has a slider...sort of a makeshift one. It was made that way...never having lugs.Under the slider, you can see the pins for the silver overlay as normally seen on officers multi piece badges.

Dwayne

[DavidS]

Bill:

Dorosh's site seems in permanent reconstruction. The only bookmark I have that still works is to infantry cap badges, but all the photos have been pulled. I don't have a bookmark to the old repro/fake page he used to have, so I can't try the back door and according to his site, these old pages are now in 'storage' and the 'old material' link is no longer there.

I am attaching more pix of the Westminster badges: closeups of front and back of the pinned and the cast badge. The pinned badge is 3-piece, and the lugs were neatly sawn off and the pin added. Looks to me like a fair amount of wear polishing on the edges of the silver leaf overlay and the beaver/crown centre.

Bit of a crappy picture of the cast front; the reverse side is better. You can see it is 2-piece with the beaver/crown painted, but the body piece is brass. Verdigris deposits front and back and wear on the lugs is pretty obvious in the pix as well.

[GregN]

Great badges Dave and David. I've been looking for an example for a couple years but living close to the regimant means the price for one is outrageous. Current issue eamples are also somewhat scare and made by Pressed Metal Products. When I'm back from holidays I'll post some examples of the Queen's crown version - basically the same with a change to the crown.

If anyone has a spare Kings Crown for sale or trade feel free to PM me

Greg

[Phillip Herring]

For the record, I was the person who sent Mr Dorosh the info on the "fake" badge on ebay.
Here is what I know.
My godfather served in the Westminsters in the late 1940's, early 50's. The officers' badge that he gave me has the gilt on the reverse, but the gilt has been removed from the front leaving copper and the silver maple leaf. As we can see from the pictures in this thread, this appears to have been a common practice.
I am guessing that for some reason, the copper finish was preferred. The post unification collar badges are found in copper.
My queen's crown Royal Westminster Regiment officers' capbadge is all copper with a silver maple leaf. No gilt was ever applied to the badge, front or rear.
Also, I have seen several of the 1st BC Regiment (two lions) capbadge in a copper finish which I believe were worn by the 3rd Battalion, 1st BC Regiment.
As has been discussed in other threads, there can be a great variety in officers' cap badges due to them being private purchase items and there being different manufacturers.

[DavidS]

Phillip:

If memory serves, your note to Dorosh also mentioned the cast badge. Is this goofy thing I have (pics in prev. post) what you were talking about or was it something else entirely? If it was, do you have any further info on that item?

As well, do you have any idea who was manufacturing the KC copper/gilt badges? I'm wondering if PMP in BC did them.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

[Doug N]

I think you're right about a preference for copper. Most of these badges are found with the gilting gone, & frequently with a lot of detail loss from overpolishing. They must have got onto 'em with Brasso at least once a week!

There is another KC officer's pattern. It's a two piece badge; gilt with a rivited silver overlay. The one pictured has screw posts & a Scully mark.

[Phillip Herring]

I saw the cast badge at a show in Vancouver about twenty years ago. Other than seeing it and knowing it exists, I can't tell you anything about it.
I do not know who manufactured the badges that I have.
I am posting my two Westminster officers badges and my 1st BC Regt badge with the copper finish. I hope these help.

[Bill A]

Nice badges. I actually like the qc example the best. Quality construction, nice details.

[Doug N]

Is there such a thing as a QC 'pre Royal' Westie officer badge; ie. circa '53-66?

[Bill A]

Doug, Not that this the most authoritative reference, but Roy Thompson's Cap Badges & Insignia of the Canadian Army 1953-1973 Vol 3 seems to indicate that there was no queen's crown Westminster Regiment officer's cap badge. He does list the Royal Westminster Regiment as having one.