British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > Headdress

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-10-20, 12:32 PM
NR72 NR72 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 17
Default DCLI Pugaree Flash - Boer War

Good afternoon all,

I am trying to find out what ORs had on their pugarees . I was always led to believe the flash was on the left side of the helmet only. I have seen the helmet in the Regimental Museum at Bodmin , which is just a red Cornwall Flash as below., maybe these were just for officers due to cost?? But having seen period photos of ORs they seem to have a bigger flash either side , and i cant seem to see any writing on it. It cant be just a red flash as i believe that was the RAMC pugaree Flash

Was their a written regimental order for the 2nd Duke of Cornwalls on where unit markings should be put on foreign service helmets, if so where would it be ?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-10-20, 01:31 PM
JerryBB's Avatar
JerryBB JerryBB is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 5,025
Default

I believe they were often made from cut off shoulder straps from the scarlet tunic, and depending on how they were cut could be long or short
__________________
Regards,

Jerry
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-10-20, 01:50 PM
NR72 NR72 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 17
Default

Hi Jerry Thanks for your reply, i have heard this , but i have issues with it, would they really cut off there epaulettes , would they even been allowed to ?? seems excessive. I have examined the one in the Regimental museum and its just a thin piece of embroidered cloth
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-10-20, 02:02 PM
JerryBB's Avatar
JerryBB JerryBB is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 5,025
Default

I have seen photos of examples for other regiments seemed to be cut down epaulettes. Peter Suciu says it was often the case in his book military sun helmets of the world p5.
__________________
Regards,

Jerry
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-10-20, 02:30 PM
cbuehler's Avatar
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 3,389
Default

Yes, I have two examples of cut off shoulder straps that were used as flashes in the Boer War or immediate post war. Many regiments apparently had quite a store of old frocks and tunics to use for the purpose. They are definitely from shoulder straps. That said, I am sure some flashes were specially made up, as there must have been a limit to this.

CB
__________________
"We seldom learn the true want of what we have till it is discovered that we can have no more." Sam. Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-10-20, 02:32 PM
NR72 NR72 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 17
Default

Ahh ok Thanks Jerry , any photos you could share?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-10-20, 02:57 PM
JerryBB's Avatar
JerryBB JerryBB is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 5,025
Default

I am sure official regs were introduced and as well as cut down shoulder straps, official issues and tailor/field made examples were run up as needed.

I don't have pics of obviously cut down straps to hand but are others from Peter and Stuarts mil sun helmets book
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20201003_155010.jpg (29.8 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20201003_154923.jpg (51.2 KB, 31 views)
__________________
Regards,

Jerry
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-10-20, 04:03 PM
49lassiepen 49lassiepen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2,149
Default

Andrew T is the person who would know -I suspect he has one of the largest if not the largest D C L I collections outside the museum I''ll see if I can find his details Not sure if he is still a member
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-10-20, 04:15 PM
49lassiepen 49lassiepen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2,149
Default

Military insignia of Cornwall
Plate K no 118-Helmet flash -for the side of the khaki tropical helmet South Africa 2nd battalion such flashes were cut from the shoulder straps of discarded red tunics [bugle/Cornwall ]
Plate K no119 worn as above [no 118 ] by the 2/4 th bn [territorial] on 2nd line garrison duty in India embroidered white on dark green
David
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-10-20, 04:59 PM
JerryBB's Avatar
JerryBB JerryBB is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 5,025
Default

mention here of using cut down shoulder straps

http://www.militarysunhelmets.com/20...e-british-army
__________________
Regards,

Jerry
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-10-20, 05:06 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,034
Default

Some people dispute that cut down shoulder straps were worn as FSH flashes.
The KORR states on its online be site that regiment wore cut down shoulder straps.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-10-20, 05:21 PM
JerryBB's Avatar
JerryBB JerryBB is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 5,025
Default

regs listed here for the wearing of flashes or not on fs and khaki sun helmets

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=64482
__________________
Regards,

Jerry
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-10-20, 05:24 PM
JerryBB's Avatar
JerryBB JerryBB is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 5,025
Default

an example of a cut down shoulder strap here on page 3

http://www.lightbobs.com/uploads/9/2..._1882-1967.pdf
__________________
Regards,

Jerry
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-10-20, 11:57 PM
cbuehler's Avatar
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 3,389
Default

These are my examples of Pagri flashes that are definitely cut off shoulder strap titles. The R. Warickshire is likely of Boer war vintage, whilst the Oxford is likely shortly after when stationed in India.

CB
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_9385.JPG (74.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_9386.JPG (85.0 KB, 9 views)
__________________
"We seldom learn the true want of what we have till it is discovered that we can have no more." Sam. Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-10-20, 07:14 AM
NR72 NR72 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 49lassiepen View Post
Military insignia of Cornwall
Plate K no 118-Helmet flash -for the side of the khaki tropical helmet South Africa 2nd battalion such flashes were cut from the shoulder straps of discarded red tunics [bugle/Cornwall ]
Plate K no119 worn as above [no 118 ] by the 2/4 th bn [territorial] on 2nd line garrison duty in India embroidered white on dark green
David
Hi David, thats great , any photos?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.