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  #1  
Old 10-01-19, 01:30 PM
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Default 5 Infantry Bde FS/ 5 Field Force

Please can anyone supply me with the lineage of 5 Infantry Brigade post-1945.
Looking online I get confusing results, plus an unexplained gap between 1964 and 1970. Is it connected to a 5 Field Force or 24 Airmobile Brigade?

Similar information would be appreciated about 6 Inf Brigade/ 6 Fld Force, and anything on the background to the formation signs they wore (attached are pictures of the FS I'm referring to)

Thanks, Stephen.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5 Inf Bde silk formation sign.jpg (27.4 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 6 Inf Bde silk formation sign.jpg (34.5 KB, 5 views)
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  #2  
Old 12-02-19, 03:58 PM
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Very complicated - essentially these signs were introduced when both Brigades were in Germany in 2 Inf Div - hence the key.
If you can finds a copy the following would be invaluable to you - "The British Army Overseas 1945-1970" by Malcolm A Bellis. Try eBay? Mike
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  #3  
Old 13-02-19, 12:40 AM
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Thanks Mike.

Stephen.
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Old 13-02-19, 06:43 AM
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In 1983 24 Airmobile were part of 2 Inf Div ,Brigade HQ at Catterick . I recall that there was at least one battalion of LI as part of the Brigade.
The other Brigades within the division at that were 15 and 49.
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Old 13-02-19, 08:48 AM
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In 1978/79 5 Field Force wore the formation sign of the 24th Guards Brigade (these were embroidered and not printed and had to be bought for the princely sum of 60 pence each). The formation sign wasn't on vehicles , instead there was a white code in the format "5/24" indicating the vehicle as being part of 24th unit of 5 field force (if memory serves me correctly I think 5/24 was in fact the RCT Squadron within 5 FF).

If i'm not mistaken, 6 Field Force in the same period wore the yellow Pegasus on blue background (all those I saw were printed versions)


PL
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Old 13-02-19, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
In 1983 24 Airmobile were part of 2 Inf Div ,Brigade HQ at Catterick . I recall that there was at least one battalion of LI as part of the Brigade.
The other Brigades within the division at that were 15 and 49.

24 Bde didn't become airmobile until the late 1980's but 2LI and 1 Gordons were part of 6 Airmobile Bde (3 Div) from about 1985-87.
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Old 13-02-19, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewCollector View Post
24 Bde didn't become airmobile until the late 1980's but 2LI and 1 Gordons were part of 6 Airmobile Bde (3 Div) from about 1985-87.
They were airportable wernt they before airmobile.
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  #8  
Old 13-02-19, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oc14 View Post
In 1978/79 5 Field Force wore the formation sign of the 24th Guards Brigade (these were embroidered and not printed and had to be bought for the princely sum of 60 pence each). The formation sign wasn't on vehicles , instead there was a white code in the format "5/24" indicating the vehicle as being part of 24th unit of 5 field force (if memory serves me correctly I think 5/24 was in fact the RCT Squadron within 5 FF).

If i'm not mistaken, 6 Field Force in the same period wore the yellow Pegasus on blue background (all those I saw were printed versions)


PL
So when was the 6 Fld Force FS (as pictured initially) worn?

Stephen.
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Old 13-02-19, 11:52 AM
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The 6 above crossed key and bayonet formation sign was only worn by 6th Infantry Brigade in BAOR and the UK in the 1950s - 1960s. (Not by 6th Field Force).
In 1971 the Brigade moved from UK (Barnard Castle) back to Soest/Korbecke in BAOR and became 6th Armoured Brigade in 4 Division. No formation badge was worn on DPM combat kit but a standing rhino sign was introduced in late 1972/early 1973 for letterheads and signboards etc. A version of it was possibly worn by a REME unit (11 Armd Wksp MSG?) during Gulf War 1.

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6th Infantry Brigade x.jpg (7.5 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg 6th Infantry Brigade (printed).jpg (3.9 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg 6th Armd Bde.jpg (50.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg REME 11 Armd Wksp (MSG) Gulf printed x.jpg (62.6 KB, 5 views)
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Last edited by grey_green_acorn; 13-02-19 at 12:00 PM.
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  #10  
Old 13-02-19, 05:06 PM
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Default Grist to the mill

From Bellis:
5 Inf Bde: In 2 Inf Div in BAOR - Dec 49, May 53, Apr 57.
5 Inf Bde Gp: In 4 Inf Div - Jul 62
5 Inf Bde: Left BAOR and replaced HQ 19 Inf Bde in Sarawak in Oct 65.
5 Inf Bde: In Jul 68 in 3 (Airportable) Div, Army Strategic Comd.

6 Inf Bde: In 2 Inf Div in BAOR Dec 49, May 53, Apr 57
6 Inf Bde Gp: In 2 Inf Div, BAOR (with under command 40 Fd Regt RA) Jul 62 and Aug 65

(in 1962 the 6 Inf Bde sign as above was carried on 40 Fd Regt RA's vehicles)
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Old 13-02-19, 06:28 PM
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The story of the two signs is complicated but briefly they resulted from the reorganisation of BAOR from 1956. An excellent guide to the changes can be found in Graham Watson & Richard A. Rinaldi : The British Army in Germany: An Organizational History 1947–2004 , Tiger Lily Publications LLC 2005 Copies available on the ABE Books site

To delay resorting to nuclear warfare if facing overwhelming Warsaw Pact forces, from 1956 BAOR began revising its tactics against conventional attack , dispersing its armoured forces and creating additional infantry formations. Pressure to reduce BAOR’s total strength brought further reorganisation, 2nd Division amalgamating with 6th Armoured Division in summer 1957, 7th Armoured becoming 5th Division in April 1958. The designations ‘Infantry’ and ‘Armoured’ now disappeared from BAOR’s divisions with many headquarters tasks delegated to newly-created Brigade Groups. The HQs of 2nd, 4th and 5th Divisions now commanded two armoured and six infantry brigade groups; 4th Division for example comprised 20th Armoured Brigade 4th Guards and 5th Infantry Brigades each with an armoured regiment and three infantry battalions.

By 1959 divisional signs were only worn by divisional HQs and divisional troops, subordinate formations wearing the newly-introduced Brigade Group signs proposed by BAOR in October 1957. The signs adopted by 5th and 6th Infantry Brigade Groups crossed a bayonet with a key from the sign of 2nd Division with which they had a long association. 6th Infantry Brigade Group served with 2nd Division, 5th Infantry Brigade Group with 4th Division.

Jon
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  #12  
Old 13-02-19, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
The 6 above crossed key and bayonet formation sign was only worn by 6th Infantry Brigade in BAOR and the UK in the 1950s - 1960s. (Not by 6th Field Force).
In 1971 the Brigade moved from UK (Barnard Castle) back to Soest/Korbecke in BAOR and became 6th Armoured Brigade in 4 Division. No formation badge was worn on DPM combat kit but a standing rhino sign was introduced in late 1972/early 1973 for letterheads and signboards etc. A version of it was possibly worn by a REME unit (11 Armd Wksp MSG?) during Gulf War 1.

Tim
Tim,

The rhino badge you show was issued to REME as you said, but there was little opportunity to actually stitch them onto uniform. I got my specimen from a Sgt in the unit shortly after he returned to BAOR.

Thanks to all for their contributions- the fog is slowly lifting!

Stephen.
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  #13  
Old 14-02-19, 05:57 AM
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Default Negative Information

Negative Information on 5 Inf Bde:
An MOD (Director of Army Staff Duties) letter of 4 Dec 80 entitled "Brigade Badges" states, inter alia, "consequent on the assumption of the title Brigade by Task Forces and the Berlin Field Force on 1 Jan 81. the badges ti be adopted by these Brigades (which are not to be worn on uniform or painted on vehicles , are to be as set out in Annex A....."
Annex A contains pretty poor quality line drawings of signs for 4, 6, 7, 11, 12, 20, 22, and 33 Armd Bdes and the Berlin Inf Bde.
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