HMS WARSPITE HAT

[l11-velasco]

Dear Folks

Your thoughts about this Royal Navy sailor,s hat and tally that came to me together lot of years ago...I was said that tally may be is a conmemorative and not original pre WW2 period as should be because has not dot...???
Hat and ribbon have the same aging and then....???

Thanks in advance

Fernando

[Nozzer]

I remember seeing a lot of this type of tally back in the late 1980's early 1990's. We could never make our mind up on them and the lack of full stop after the ships name was always a concern. They are very fragile and would tear very easily. I would also mention that absolutely no matelot would tie his tally like that!

Cap is fine though.

[l11-velasco]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

I remember seeing a lot of this type of tally back in the late 1980's early 1990's. We could never make our mind up on them and the lack of full stop after the ships name was always a concern. They are very fragile and would tear very easily. I would also mention that absolutely no matelot would tie his tally like that!

Cap is fine though.

Does you mean this type of tallies seen from you late 1980,s early 1990.s were made on those years and then what should be the sense of making these...any conmemorative using or only to sell as original period ones but in this case very bad idea because the absence of full stop...???

[wardog]

Is there a known period for a genuine no dot tally? Or is it just pre WWII? Regards, Paul.

[High Wood]

You have seen the cap tally, but have you seen the jigsaw puzzle?

[Guzzman]

I have my doubts about this tally being genuine. It just doesn't look right and the material it is made from seems very thin. There is also the problem of the missing dot after the name.

During the 1960s it was the 20th anniversary of naval actions during the Second World War. Many veterans wanted to purchase tallies from their old ships but there simply weren't enough original tallies to go round. So many companies produced new tallies for them bearing their wartime ship's names - but none of these bore the dot after the name as the originals would have done. Sometimes they were produced using a cheaper material than the originals. It is now 60 years since these reproduction tallies were made and they will have aged considerably!

It looks to me as if someone has taken one of these reproduction tallies and tied it to an older cap. As Nozzer states, whoever tied it was obviously no sailor. It looks bloody awful! And anyway the fashion for wearing tallies pre-war and during the war was to tie the bow over the left eye. Quite illegal but that was the fashion!

'Dotted' tallies were the norm for naval tallies for from the time they were first introduced in the 1860s (though I do have one or two Great War tallies that were produced without them). At the start of the war ratings were allowed to continue wearing their named tallies until stocks were used up - they were then supposed to wear 'H.M.S.' tallies. Named tallies with dots returned after the war but by 1947-48 these were being replaced by tallies without dots. However just to confuse things, in the early-1950s some tallies were made with dots after the name for larger new warships such as the aircraft carrier HMS Eagle. But after a year or two these were also replaced with undotted tallies. Undotted tallies have remained in use ever since.

Pete

[l11-velasco]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

I have my doubts about this tally being genuine. It just doesn't look right and the material it is made from seems very thin. There is also the problem of the missing dot after the name.

During the 1960s it was the 20th anniversary of naval actions during the Second World War. Many veterans wanted to purchase tallies from their old ships but there simply weren't enough original tallies to go round. So many companies produced new tallies for them bearing their wartime ship's names - but none of these bore the dot after the name as the originals would have done. Sometimes they were produced using a cheaper material than the originals. It is now 60 years since these reproduction tallies were made and they will have aged considerably!

It looks to me as if someone has taken one of these reproduction tallies and tied it to an older cap. As Nozzer states, whoever tied it was obviously no sailor. It looks bloody awful! And anyway the fashion for wearing tallies pre-war and during the war was to tie the bow over the left eye. Quite illegal but that was the fashion!

'Dotted' tallies were the norm for naval tallies for from the time they were first introduced in the 1860s (though I do have one or two Great War tallies that were produced without them). At the start of the war ratings were allowed to continue wearing their named tallies until stocks were used up - they were then supposed to wear 'H.M.S.' tallies. Named tallies with dots returned after the war but by 1947-48 these were being replaced by tallies without dots. However just to confuse things, in the early-1950s some tallies were made with dots after the name for larger new warships such as the aircraft carrier HMS Eagle. But after a year or two these were also replaced with undotted tallies. Undotted tallies have remained in use ever since.

Pete

Thanks for your GREAT explanation to teach myself