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  #16  
Old 07-02-14, 07:20 PM
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manchesters manchesters is offline
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Default 5th BN

Mike,

I am afraid I cannot help.
Once they leave the Regiment I do not continue to follow them or research them. Very sorry.

regards
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  #17  
Old 07-02-14, 08:39 PM
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Hi Simon,

Welcome to the forum, about time! It will be good to have your expertise here, though as you know I am thinning out my Manchester Regiment collection to focus on my CEF badges. From all the posts on this thread, the membership here is thirsting for a true Manchester Regiment expert!

Cheers, Ian.
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  #18  
Old 07-02-14, 08:40 PM
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Default Manchester Volunteer Battalions

Welcome to the Forum, Simon.
I would be interested in seeing your Volunteer Battalion badges sometime.
Perhaps you could show them in an Album.
Cheers, Tinto
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  #19  
Old 07-02-14, 08:57 PM
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Ian and Tinto, thanks for the messages.
I will add some more photos soon.

Regards
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  #20  
Old 09-02-14, 08:38 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Hello Simon,
Well, I just wondered what your thoughts were on this, interestingly, the sealed date, according to K&K vol 2 is 1964, where as their white metal badge is shown as 1949.
I actually much prefer their old city coat of arms to be quite honest though.
Regards again Frank

Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
As far as I am aware everyone should have wore them during its period of use. This includes regulars and TA. Officers of course probably wore silver/silver plate badges.

Of course these are just rules and as we know rules are to be broken. I have had ample photographic evidence of Victorian Crown cap badges being worn in WW1 by various other regiments.

Always impossible to tell from photos of course as all look the same.

The only way to be sure is for ex-members to add their recollections but they can be quite blurred after 50 years as to such a minor detail in their service life.

As I recall there are 2 makers often encountered, Smith & Wright and also Grove.

regards
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  #21  
Old 10-02-14, 02:37 AM
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John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mulcahy View Post

It has always been a point of conjecture as to whether piercing was abandoned on some badges during the great war to speed up production...
There is an entry as such in the RACD list of Changes in the National Archives.

Thus officially at least there was no WO instruction to eliminate voiding on Infantry badges, indeed the entry specifically comments that regiments will be happy not to see their badges disfigured. Once I am back at home I shall provide a transcription of the entry and the references as to its location at The National Archives

Regarding the non-piercing (voiding) of cap badges as an economy effort during the Great War. I have only come across the following two entries.

From The RACD List of Changes vol 16 page 31


Badges Forage Cap R.A., R.E., A.S.C. non piercing of.
ACD/Badges/12
30/6/1916
There is no objection to piercing being omitted in the case of R.A, R.E. and A.S.C. cap badges where large numbers are concerned, as a war measure only but the proposal to substitute tape is not approved.
Signed . J. Steevens, 26-6-1916


Col. J. Steevens ranked as a Maj. General and was the Director of Equipment & Ordnance Stores in 1914. This appears to be the beginning of the ‘project” and I have not seen anything to extend it beyond the corps mentioned.

Within 5 months the following entry appears in vol. 16 page 53;

Badges Forage Cap, non-piercing of.
ACD/Badges/14
18/11/1916
The result of adoption of unpierced badges has been somewhat quicker delivery at slightly reduced cost. I do not consider that my requirement of these badges will, in future be so great as to warrant the continuation of what the units no doubt consider the disfigurement of the badges. I assume I may order pierced and thus eliminate probably complaint.
Approved: The unpierced badges are only a temporary emergency signed H.A. Anley A.D.D.C. Q.M.D.G. 18.11.16


A.D.D.C. = Assistant Director Dress & Clothing. While not proof positive that Infantry badges were not intentionally subjected to the elimination of piercing I have not come across anything for Irish Infantry or Cavalry regiments in regard to the elimination of piercing.

I have however seen that ACD/Patterns/3253 of 29-8-1916 authorizes non-piercing of metal shoulder titles for the period of the war. An entry in vol 19 page 38 notes representive samples to guide contractors of the following titles, King’s , Cornwall, R.A.M.C. Cheshire, R.W. Kent, T Monmouthshire, R.D.F., Seaforth, S. Staffs, Shropshire ,and Somerset being “sealed” under pattern 756/1916. Whether any of these non-pierced titles were made and issued before cloth titles temporarily replaced the regular metal shoulder titles I do not know, I certainly have not seen evidence of Irish ones being made.


John
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  #22  
Old 11-02-14, 06:00 PM
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Welcome Simon you,ve caused quite a furrow! enjoy all the best billy
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  #23  
Old 26-02-14, 03:38 PM
ronb0848 ronb0848 is offline
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Smile titles

hello, im contacting you in desperation simon, i looked at the titles you told me
about on e bay, but unfortunatly they are not the type im looking for.
im trying to obtain a pair of manchester titles but they must be the woven type not printed.
im puting to gether a battle dress as worn by myself in the mid 50s, and need to get hold of the titles.
if you happen to have a spare pair, or know where i may be able to obtain apair i will pay a good price for them.
hope you can help.
yours ron, ex manch regt
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  #24  
Old 26-02-14, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Mike,

I am afraid I cannot help.
Once they leave the Regiment I do not continue to follow them or research them. Very sorry.

regards
If the following is true, perhaps you'll have to think again.
Mike

The 5th Battalion Battalion formed part of the British Expeditionary Force and in April 1940 went to France. After being involved in a major defence, the BEF went into retreat, a vast amount gathered on Dunkirk beach (codenamed "Operation Dynamo") where they joined other armed forces waiting to be evacuated by hundreds of little boats and ships. More than 330,000 soldiers were rescued and taken back to Britain. The 5th were evacuated, having suffered light casualties compared to the 2nd Manchesters. The evacuation began 26th May and ended on 4 June.
In November 1941 the 5th Battalion was redesignated 111 Regiment Royal Armoured Corps (The Manchester Regiment), November 1942 the Battalion became an armoured car regiment of 77 Division,
November 1943 reverted to its original infantry role as 5th Manchesters. In 1944, following Royal Guard duties at Balmoral, Battalion was posted to Malta November 1945 and remained there until November 1946 when the 5th was disbanded.
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  #25  
Old 26-02-14, 04:47 PM
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Mike,

I am familiar with the history of all the Battalions in the Regiment and stand by my reply.

You asked about badges worn by 111 Regt, RAC. This was not part of the Manchester regiment during this time, but as you quote, formed by them on conversion to an armoured unit.

When they reverted back to infantry they wore the Regimental badge but what they did Inbetween I have no idea.

Regards
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  #26  
Old 05-03-14, 09:00 AM
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Bdr2435 Bdr2435 is offline
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Hi Simon
I live in Blackley, Manchester and have just joined myself
I am not a collector (at the moment) but was interested to note that you are interested in the Manchester Regiment.
I became interested in the Manchester Regiment when as a result of ancestry research I discovered that my great uncle was in the 2/5 Manchesters and was killed in france in 1917.



I am currently a serving Police Officer and on occasion military medals are handed in to the police station and never returned due to lack of information about the owners. I recently returned a Manchester Regiment war medal to the museum that was handed in, as it was the best place for it.
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  #27  
Old 05-03-14, 01:43 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdr2435 View Post
Hi Simon
I live in Blackley, Manchester and have just joined myself
I am not a collector (at the moment) but was interested to note that you are interested in the Manchester Regiment.
I became interested in the Manchester Regiment when as a result of ancestry research I discovered that my great uncle was in the 2/5 Manchesters and was killed in france in 1917.



I am currently a serving Police Officer and on occasion military medals are handed in to the police station and never returned due to lack of information about the owners. I recently returned a Manchester Regiment war medal to the museum that was handed in, as it was the best place for it.
Thats a beautiful memento of your great uncle, never seen one like it before.


regards
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  #28  
Old 05-03-14, 01:58 PM
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Bdr2435 Bdr2435 is offline
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Thanks Simon I'm really pleased to have it.
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  #29  
Old 25-03-14, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Hello,

My name is Simon Butterworth and I live in Lancashire, England.

I have collected British military badges for over 45 years now and have changed my collecting theme several times over the years.

For the last 20 years I have collected solely to the Manchester Regiment, including its componant units such as the 63rd Foot, 96th Foot, 6th Lancashire Militia and all the Lancashire RVC's that made up its Volunteer Battalions. I have an extensive collection of badges, medals, and every other item you can think of ralating to the Regiment and believe the badge collection to be the largest in existence.

I am a member of the Manchester Regimental Museum Committee and catalogued its collection. They have asked me to prepare a publication on the Regiments badges but I cant see a time when it will be finished!

A side line of mine is collecting Kings Crown Commonwealth Artillery 'Field Gun' style Cap Badges and British Red Cross Badges, titles and medals.

I know several members on here, particularly those that are interested in the Manchester Regiment. I am sorry I havent joined previously but for the last 10 years I have really been pre-occupied with collecting, researching and writing about Manchester Regiment medals, rather than my true interest which is badges. So its time to get back to my roots.

I hope I can help others on the forum, particular with British badge identification as I have a wealth of knowledge I have built up over the years and have handled both metal and cloth badges of all periods.

I also would like to learn more from collectors of Commonwealth Artillery badges particularly the CEF battery badges which are a minefield.

I (think I) have attached a couple of photos as a small taster below.

thankyou
Hello Simon,

The second of your pictures show the colour patches that I asked you about last week.
I found this post while looking for examples of the Manchester colour patches.
I thought if you saw them you would now know what I was talking about.

James.
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  #30  
Old 25-03-14, 12:54 PM
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James,

If you mean the 42nd East Lancashire Divisional badges, (the coloured numbers on diamonds), those are nothing to do with the 6th VB, they were introduced in WW1 and worn by Territorial Bn's on their upper arms and occasionally on their Wolsley Helmets.

Could you repeat the question, and I will try to answer it now I know what you are referring to bythe term colour patches.

regards
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