14th Hussars badges (cap and collar)

[Jibba Jabba]

A small collection of badges that to the best of my knowledge are genuine.

The cataloguing of 14th Hussars badges has always been a very interesting topic of discussion for me because it would appear very few people actaully know when particular badges were worn.

I once had the opportunity to ask a WW1 veteran as to which badge he wore during his tour of Mespot and interestingly enough the badge that he said he wore was the plain eagle with slider. Now thats a revelation because it means all the books are wrong! I very much suspect the badge that the book says was worn was in fact worn by members of the regiment who served in France and Flanders.

Before I dig myself into an even bigger hole here are the badges.....

First up is a badge I bought from a very well known dealer for three pounds. Sadly it has been brooched but the chances of finding another officers silver are nil so I`ll live with it.

The second badge was bought from a anther militaria dealer in the mid 1970's. The price of that was a working mans wage for a week! Note the rear construction and how clean the point is around where the slider is attached. Incredibly rare badge, never seen another I would be happy with in my collection.

The third example is a very common badge. Sadly this is the badge your most likely to find repros of. It is only in recent years that I have noticed good quality repros appear on the market.

The final badge has been decribed by some because of the lugs and cloth backing as an arm badge. I am not so sure, I think its a cap badge but I am welcome to opinions on that.







The Kings crown is a common example and the second is an officers collar.

Thats about it folks. Please feel free to post some of your collection here, I`d love to see more examples, particulary of the 'Kings Crown' cap badge which I do not own an original of. Ive never seen an example of that I would be happy with.

[Sonofacqms]

From the look of your badges I would say No1 Officers OK, No2 O/R's OK,
No3 looks like a restrike to me, if it hasn't got the brazing holes it almost certainly is, No4 I think is probably a cap badge with loops as the Sgts wore silver arm badges and the corporals wore German silver.

[Alan O]

This is my 'Cartwheel' badge. Much faked but I believe this to be original.

Alan

[Alan O]

This is my WW2 one - much polished.

Alan

[Alan O]

This is my first pattern. Sweat holes in the back and a nice shaped slider. But the w/m eagle is a bit of a mess around the tail.

Alan

[Keith Blakeman]

Here's my one with the FR monogram on the breast. Same shaped slider the the rear of the eagle's head.

[Sonofacqms]

Alan, from your picture the 14th Cartwheel looks good, I can't quite see, but if the "T & H" of 14 th are the same height then it's a real one.

[Jibba Jabba]

Hi Sonofacqms,

Thank you for pointing out there are no sweat holes. You can also see that the eagles heads are of two different designs. This would in my opinion suggest two different manufacturers. Personally I`m not 100 percent convinced about sweat holes being the definitive tell take sign of a repro. This example is has an incredibly neatly soldered slider and extremely nice patination on the inside of the slider. The rear detail of the badge is also extremely well defined. Also in regard to the NCO's badge if we are talking pre WW1 1910 the NCO badges were bullion wire. A Prussian eagle five times the size of the cap badge was worn above the stripes on dress uniform. I have some very good photos of the regiment in India if you would like to see them. Like I said there is a lot of confussion regarding what was worn by the regiment. As for cavalry arm badges, my information came from David Linaker and Gordon Dine (MHS Special) a very useful book may I add. I am sure when abroad for long periods badges were made locally with the approval of the Colonel.

[Jibba Jabba]

There is also another officers 14th Hussars OSD badge to collect. One example was sold a few months ago from Bosley badge auction. I`m sorry you've never heard of the solid silver badge before but the proof is in the picture. It has traces on the reverse of where two lugs have been removed which is why I bought it.

When I said one could not assemble a complete collection of badges with out having sand cast examples in ones collection I should of used better wording. What I should of said was 'mounted units' and not 'cavalry', since only cavalry carry the sword. One unit which springs instantly to mind is the Imperial Camel Corps and of course 90 precent of all WW1 Australian Light Horse badges which on the most part are made up from sand cast components. I believe that 13th Hussars badge is genuine.

[Sonofacqms]

Jibba Jabba, very interesting picture, all the NCO's are wearing for cap badges the Prussian Eagle KK1907 which was worn after the cartwheel type of WWI. The pattern was sealed 7th March 1932, although probably worn before, May I suggest they wore the white metal collars for cap badges? The arm badges look splendid, the oval one in particular could be silver.

[Keith Blakeman]

A few more from my collection. The bi-metal one does have a single large sweathole underneath the slider, the left of it is just visible. Also a w/m collar, no luck yet with it's partner.

[Jibba Jabba]

I am no way claiming to be the expert on this but this is my opinion in regard to the 'actual' chronological order of wear. I do realise that the expert badge authors do contradict me, but please hear me out.

The reason why the NCO's in the photo are not wearing the oval badge is because in India the oval badge was never issued. They were however issued in the UK. I assume the regiment could not get hold of the oval badge in India. In 1915 the prussian eagle oval badge was dropped and replaced with the Kings badge because it looked too much like German badges. However the the troops who were out fighting in Mesoptamia were not issued these badges and because they were the original men from India the badge they wore was the Prussian eagle. So the men in Mesopotamia never saw the other two badges. The oval badge was worn in France and Flanders and was replaced in 1915 by the Kings badge, but sadly I have no photographic evidence of the regiment in this threatre to back this up.

To summarise the dates that we see in the books are correct for the contingent on the Western Front but not for the regiment in Mesopotamia.

[Jibba Jabba]

Hi Keith,

Thank you for the pictures. My badge is question does have one single large sweat hole under the slider but note the difference in the eagles head, particulary the length of the tongue.

Hi Nigel,

Thats a very sensible attitude to take on forum. I think its ok to state if you think a badge is fake as long as you use contructive criticism and thus take the time to say why. Ive often been at fairs and seen people barge into the middle of where deals are going of, with lines such as 'thats fake'. In my mind thats just pig ignorant, its all about the way you go about conducting yourself. I`d rather tell a friend that a badge is repro because thats being honest. I know of many collectors when asked by dealers of their opinions on militaria will tell the dealer it is ok, when they know it to be a blatent repro. The only reason why they do this is to curry the dealers favour. In my mind thats mocking the dealer, sorry thats not me! :-)

In regards to the silver badge I`m afraid there are many badges which have no supportive photographic evidence. Over the course of my membership I`ll be showing many more badges which are not documented any where.

[Alan O]

I am confused by the Oval badge - the regiment were in India 1906-14. If they were wearing the lone eagle as pictured just who was wearing the oval badge if the badges were not sent out to India?

Alan

[Jibba Jabba]

Your right it is very confusing! I am saying that troops in England wore the oval, there is also the possibility that regiment did recieve the badge in India but decided they didnt like it and didnt want to wear it. Thats exactly what happened with the QRL in more recent times, they much prefered the Motto with out lances.