The future

[Peter Brydon]

I overheard a couple of conversations at yesterdays Liverpool Fair ( and no, I dont go round evesdropping on other peoples conversations )

A couple of acquaintances of mine were talking about the different pills they were on for blood pressure/ colesterol. Another person walking past said "the conversations here used to be about militaria now they are about all the pills we are taking "

I later heard a dealer talking to a customer saying there are no youngsters starting to collect militaria and saying it was because the prices for even what used to be regarded as common items are now beyond the reach of most young people and there is very little that can be bought for pocket money prices.

On reflection there is a lot of truth in the above,there were few punters about below thirty "something " and a lot of the younger people seemed to be dragged along by older relatives.

Now that the old county regiments are a distant memory and most WW2 veterans are in their 80`s I do wonder who the future collectors ( if any ) will be and what will become of the hobby.

Any one any thoughts ?

P.B.

[jeep]

Peter
I too was at Liverpool yesterday, and what you say is correct, although I didn't hear anyone talking about medication! One thing I did notice, there seemed to be more interest in other militaria and books, than in badges. Maybe your comments about prices is true, but as the saying goes 'What goes up must come down.' If only!
Regards - John

[Jeff Mc William]

Peter. Simple ; Wean them off sex, drugs, and the "X factor", and bring back National Service ! Must close now, time for my Resuvostatin ! Jeff

[Sonofacqms]

How true Peter your observations are, when I go to Bedford, I would say the average age is 55, very few teenagers or people in their twenties. We are now becoming the elders of the tribe as far as militaria collecting goes. Most stalls seem awash with weapons of all sorts and "Nazi" militaria. The badge dealers are all I would think "North of 40", many never seeing 50 again, what of the future? Maybe ebay with it's numerous questionable badges could be our saviour, because any good badges that turn up make good money.
Someone must buy the restrikes, the computer generation of youngsters that do not know good from bad.

I never cease to be amazed how much badges make at Bosley's postal auction, without question some very rare items, which are often out of reach of seasoned badge collectors with years of collecting behind them. When we all end up at the great Militaria fair in the sky, a great surge of genuine "common" badges will appear on the market, maybe giving younger people a chance, with reasonable prices. Badges are one of the facets of collecting that have held a steady price, uniforms, medals and other aspects have gone up and down over the years, but good badges generally seem to hold steady. Another thought on the subject is the vast range of insignia that was worn by most British Regiments which are generally documented somewhere, I think if I was starting out to collect today, I would find it most daunting, what with the range, price and the fact there are restrikes.

[Peter Brydon]

John/Jeff/Sonofa,

Thanks for your input.

Another thing I noticed at Liverpool yesterday was that a number of dealers who have previously been regulars there did not attend ( I know the weather was terrible).

There have in the past been at least 2 medal dealers who were regulars and who were missing yesterday and the only badge specialist was our own Peter Taylor. It does make one wonder if we are heading for a situation where there are only one or two fairs in each region a couple of times each year..

If dealers are not going to sell much, why pay the costs of a stall, and the cost of getting to the fair ( other than for the possibility of being offered items ) when most items on E bay or at the well known auctions seem to sell readily ? Or is the recession biting

P.B.

[KLR]

Luke - where are you ?!
Are you alone amongst your contemporaries ?

[Jeff Mc William]

Seriously tho', it is difficult to know how to cope with this problem of indifference to our hobby. Attitudes, and indeed Society have changed so much. A few months ago I happened to ask my local newsagent for a copy of "Soldier" magazine. He looked at me as if I was mad !
Possibly our best hope is that the youngsters now serving (or having just served) in our armed forces, can be encouraged to take an interest in our military heritage. One way I suppose could be for us to submit articles on badge collecting etc to "Soldier" or any of the many "house" magazines of the various regiments that will accept them. I would also add that perhaps this forum and others on the Web are doing their part. Regards. Jeff

[Jeff Mc William]

Another thing I can't understand about our hobby is ; If interest is declining, why are prices rising !??

[Voltigeur]

Hello Gents.I have been reading your posts and I can tell you that we have the same problem on this side too. I'm 56 and most of the people I know in this hobby are more or a little less my age. These are the people that got me interested in the early 80's when you could go to a show with $200-$300.00 (about 100-150GBP) and having no problem to spend that kind of money.Nowadays, young guys spend that kind of money on Ipods,CDs and similar stuffs or simply go out and have a good time.
As for the dealers, I have my own theory......the less they sell,the more money they ask for a badge. The more money they ask, the less they sell.

Jo

[Alan O]

The problem of rising prices is due to a lack of badges coming onto the market. While you do get the odd original badge coming out of the attic, the majority for sale on Ebay or in many shops are fakes. Dealers buy up the lots from auction houses and sell it on at twice the price. Few collectors want to buy 20 badges at a time from Bosleys.

When was the last time a genuine and relatively rare badge was sold by a private individual (or even some of the delaers) on ebay that was not bought up by Fennybadge, Emmerson, or one of the other dealers and then sold on their websites or relisted at twice the price? Check out their feedback and you see the same dealers names who are buying the good badges from other dealers and then charging even more.

Add in the outright crooks, the fakes and dealers who should know better but seem not to and it is not such an attractive hobby to get started out in.

Alan

[lettman]

Apologies for wading in a bit late on this very interesting and (for us) important topic. I agree with most of the comments above, with this addition. I sometimes run a small trading table at the local militaria shows here in Adelaide (and used to at the occasional Melbourne show in their better days) and I'd say the interest in badges and insignia nowadays is very low even compared to uniforms, webbing, etc. While even relatively young(-ish) collectors will rummage through racks and boxes of uniform items (and, I have to add, still seem fascinated by firearms), only the occasional (usually 'mature') devotee bothers to look at badges.
So while I don't see the general field of militaria collecting plodding its way to the elephant's graveyard, I think badges and insignia have become a distinctly minority interest within that field.

[boots and saddles]

Well 8th, My two cents worth,I think the hobby will die in time except for a few with millions of dollars, The only people that will come on the scene are the collectors of this cadpac junk that is being flogged on ebay, and I guess that is ok if that's what they are interested in, None of these people ever heard of the Victoria Rifles, the Middlesex & Huron or the 16th/22nd Sask. Horse, the only Regiments you ever hear of now are the RCR's or PPCLI or maybe the 8th Hussars & Royal 22nd. all of which are new ( except for the 8th H)compared with some of the Militia regiments, civilian association with the military is almost non-existant now.
I know some of you will say the RCR has been around for ever ,yes it's roots maybe but the name only goes back to 1901,the other two are WW1 units. The 8th Hussars is the exception they go back to the 1800's. The UK have kept the Military more in the forefront I believe moreso than we have,although amalgamations have played havoc with military nostalgia. Old badges as we know them is on the way out. Ray

[Bill A]

Cadpat junk? Holy cow, (to quote Bart), Ray. One mans junk is another man's collection. Wonder what the fellows in the barracks said about those crappy little badges that they had to wear instead of the good old helmet plate? Or the flimsy cloth shoulder title instead of the solid, lasts forever, metal shoulders?
People tend to collect what they knew or used. And then branch out from there. Yes, there are problems getting new blood interested in the hobby, but the badges are limited or repro'd. (I think there must be 5 times more phoney Nazi stuff out there now than the badges the Third Reich actually made.) And it is much more difficult to get the material because there are limited sources of it available. There aren't 200,000 Canadian soldiers with the respective number of badges. Many of those WW2 vets became great collectors.
Even so, I see a few new collector's at the gun shows and at the badge shows. But the new collectors seem to be collecting differently. Instead of a comprehensive collection of all the badges, they are concentrating on a specific unit or regimental family, or type of badge. (Like the a/a badges that our English colleagues are discussing.)
I have been trying to document and record the provenance of post war formation patches / tasking patches in the Canadian army and it is almost impossible. The difficulty of collecting may be as much an issue as the questions of price and reproductions.
Perhaps we can all help. When we see a individual who expresses an interest, we can feed the interest. Give them a few badges, share information, assist them with getting to shows (car pool or rides), and most importantly, encourage them, but with the cautions of the problems out there.
On the British Medals Forum, a thread contained a comment about donating medals to museums. One message, paraphrased here, said that there was no way his collection was ever going into a musuem. It was going to be sold to other collectors. Without encouraging new blood ourselves, that idea of making a return on the investment will be more of a bust.

[Phillip Herring]

There is the key Bill...give somebody a badge.
When I have received badges for nothing, I often try to pass on the favour. Many people have given me current issue badges. These I will not sell, rather I will give them to other collectors with the request that they not sell them. I gave some unusual CF combat titles to a collector a number of years ago, and within minutes he had them in his case with a hefty price tag on them. I was not impressed. I'm not suggesting that we give away badges that we have paid a great deal of money for, but I have found that the hobby becomes a great deal more enjoyable when there is less of a business angle.
A veteran collector told me about the days - thirty years ago - when the collectors were friends, and they would just give each other spare badges rather than a one for one trade with no wiggle room. I know it is difficult now when scarce badges command high prices and we all want to recoup our investment. Unfortunately, many of us are guilty of paying high prices for badges and thus driving the market. I'm not afraid to admit that I have.
Just my musings.
Phil

[Peter Brydon]

What Phil says rings bells but regretably we are talking about a long time ago when people would willing give spares to fellow collectors without expecting anything back in return.

Not sure if the change is a result of hugely increased values or a change in personal values, all I can say is that the whole ethos of collecting badges has changed for the worse over the years.

It is great to see the way members are willling to share information here ,but you can understand why young collectors seem to give up the hobby after a very short time. If you bought items for good prices only to be told later that they were duds, you would soon lose your enthusiasm.

P.B.