3rd Dragoon Guards, Round top 3 query - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

dubaiguy · #1 05-05-14, 06:42 AM

Gents

I would be grateful for some help.

I have been searching for a 3rd Dragoon Guards with the rounded top to the 3 in 3rd for some time.

I have now got hold of one, but don't know what to think about it.

I have compared it to a round top 3, 3rd DG badge that Malcolm Davey shows in his absolutely excellent Dragoon album and it appears exactly the same (I trust you don't mind the mention Malcolm even though I may be questioning mine). I have also compared it to that shown as KK 739 and again it looks exactly the same as the one in the book (it was a bit like a 'spot the differences' competition, but without any differences!).

However, it is such a Heath Robinson looking badge, shallow strike and badly formed irregular lettering, that if it wasn't for the above comparisons I'd have chucked it in the sin bin immediately I received it.

What do the Forum cavalry collectors think of the badge? Are there any other examples of the round top 3 in forum collections. I show it next to a genuine flat top 3 for comparison. The difference in quality is stark, though of course the flat top is probably Victorian and the round top could be war production.

All the best gents

Cheers
Mark

2747andy · #2 05-05-14, 07:28 AM

Mark,
it is fine, do not let the apparent lack of quality deter you, it's just right! One to tick off your list!!

Andy

dubaiguy · #3 06-05-14, 02:59 AM

Andy
Thanks again for the advice and feedback. Though it is great to hear that it is genuine, this hobby never ceases to amaze me. I've seen better out and out ringers than this one.

You make me sound like a twitcher ticking another box. I really need to get some therapy............................!

Mark

Malcolm Davey · #4 06-05-14, 06:40 AM

Mark
Great find, these type are harder to come by and yours looks a good example, I trust there is a sweat hole behind the coronet. Thanks for your kind words about my album, I'm glad members are finding them useful for reference

Cheers
Malc

dubaiguy · #5 06-05-14, 08:48 AM

Hello Malcolm

Yes it has a sweathole just offset to the right behind the coronet.

Cheers
Mark

2747andy · #6 06-05-14, 01:51 PM

interestingly enough the genuine c.1916 all Gm badge is based on this design!

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...t=bank+holiday

Andy

Frank Kelley · #7 07-05-14, 08:58 PM

Hello Mark,
I have always liked these badges, I think they are of quite good quality and I have never had any issues with them, I well remember feeling very pleased with myself when I first got hold of an example.
Regards Frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubaiguy

Gents

I would be grateful for some help.

I have been searching for a 3rd Dragoon Guards with the rounded top to the 3 in 3rd for some time.

I have now got hold of one, but don't know what to think about it.

I have compared it to a round top 3, 3rd DG badge that Malcolm Davey shows in his absolutely excellent Dragoon album and it appears exactly the same (I trust you don't mind the mention Malcolm even though I may be questioning mine). I have also compared it to that shown as KK 739 and again it looks exactly the same as the one in the book (it was a bit like a 'spot the differences' competition, but without any differences!).

However, it is such a Heath Robinson looking badge, shallow strike and badly formed irregular lettering, that if it wasn't for the above comparisons I'd have chucked it in the sin bin immediately I received it.

What do the Forum cavalry collectors think of the badge? Are there any other examples of the round top 3 in forum collections. I show it next to a genuine flat top 3 for comparison. The difference in quality is stark, though of course the flat top is probably Victorian and the round top could be war production.

All the best gents

Cheers
Mark

dubaiguy · #8 08-05-14, 03:10 PM

Hello Frank

Thanks for your input.

From reading some of your recent posts I get the impression that you favour Victorian and Edwardian badges as I do. The badge on the right is one and I'd like to think............. 'it's a cracker'......... However, the badge on the left, though deemed genuine looks like an ugly bag of shxxe to me.

Anyway super glad it's the real McCoy and it has supporters among the more knowledgeable forum members. I wont be taking it to the ball though, it can stay at home and sweep the chimney.

Cheers Frank
Mark

LONGSHANKS · #9 08-05-14, 04:15 PM

After reading this post, I took a look at mine and I do agree they are a well made cavalry badge. Very sturdy all round. I didn't know they a hard to find regiment.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=92417

Regards

Simon.

dubaiguy · #10 08-05-14, 05:54 PM

Hello Simon

The badges you show all appear to be great examples of the badge with a flat top to the three in 3rd Dragoon Guards, which is illustrated as KK 738.

The bi-metal badge on the left in my original post has a rounded top to the three, a different feather arrangement, a different crown and different writing on the scroll. This badge is illustrated as KK 739.

Badge KK 738 are more common (and well made).

Badge KK 739 are harder to find (and won't win any beauty contest).

Making sense?

Cheers
Mark

LONGSHANKS · #11 08-05-14, 06:06 PM

Hi Mark, would you say from the construction that K&K 739 is post WW1. Where as the 738 is more towards that period.

Simon.

Frank Kelley · #12 08-05-14, 06:13 PM

Hello Mark,
It's the real thing, yes, in terms of quality, not quite as good, but, still a very nice badge and they are certainly not ten a penny anymore either.
I'm very pleased for you, I never really had a problem with Victorian badges, South Africa used to be awash with them as the whole army served out there in the Anglo Boer War.
It was actually the latter badges that often proved more difficult.
Kind regards Frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubaiguy

Hello Frank

Thanks for your input.

From reading some of your recent posts I get the impression that you favour Victorian and Edwardian badges as I do. The badge on the right is one and I'd like to think............. 'it's a cracker'......... However, the badge on the left, though deemed genuine looks like an ugly bag of shxxe to me.

Anyway super glad it's the real McCoy and it has supporters among the more knowledgeable forum members. I wont be taking it to the ball though, it can stay at home and sweep the chimney.

Cheers Frank
Mark

Frank Kelley · #13 10-05-14, 04:35 PM

Mark,
Just a quick note on your badge on the right, when the regiment arrived in South Africa in the new year of 1901, that is what they were wearing on their caps, they had a hard campaign too, it is a super badge.
Whilst I have never thought of them as scarce, I do note that these days, if you go to a fair here, you often find the cavalry badges of this period being grouped together, by many dealers, on little bits of card in really small groups, gone are the days when you would see a complete board or card of such cavalry together in a single frame or case all for sale!
Not to mention the crazy prices now being asked!

Regards again Frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubaiguy

Hello Frank

Thanks for your input.

From reading some of your recent posts I get the impression that you favour Victorian and Edwardian badges as I do. The badge on the right is one and I'd like to think............. 'it's a cracker'......... However, the badge on the left, though deemed genuine looks like an ugly bag of shxxe to me.

Anyway super glad it's the real McCoy and it has supporters among the more knowledgeable forum members. I wont be taking it to the ball though, it can stay at home and sweep the chimney.

Cheers Frank
Mark

dubaiguy · #14 11-05-14, 03:58 PM

Hello Frank
If only I'd known. Up until last year I used to go to Cape Town maybe 5 or 6 times a year. Used to stay at the Protea at Victoria Junction, before going back up to Jo'berg to get an onward flight to places like Nigeria, Angola or Cameroon.

As your thumbnail shows a pile of Victorian cavalry badges, I thought I'd show some of mine. If you ever come across some of the harder to get Victorian Cavalry badges in South Africa, (18th Hussars or 21st Lancers etc.), I'd always appreciate a nod and a wink.

Simon
I reckon you wouldn't be far off.

All the best
Mark

Frank Kelley · #15 11-05-14, 04:10 PM

Hello Mark,
Don't worry you are not missing any now, I said "used to be awash" it certainly is not the case these days!
You can find them here, at a price, of course!
Regards Frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubaiguy

Hello Frank
If only I'd known. Up until last year I used to go to Cape Town maybe 5 or 6 times a year. Used to stay at the Protea at Victoria Junction, before going back up to Jo'berg to get an onward flight to places like Nigeria, Angola or Cameroon.

As your thumbnail shows a pile of Victorian cavalry badges, I thought I'd show some of mine. If you ever come across some of the harder to get Victorian Cavalry badges in South Africa, (18th Hussars or 21st Lancers etc.), I'd always appreciate a nod and a wink.

Simon
I reckon you wouldn't be far off.

All the best
Mark