A/A Lancashire Fusiliers

[chris cunniffe]

Hi could I please ask any member who knows any thing about A/A Lancashire Fusiliers badge please give me their thoughts many thanks chris

[49lassiepen]

Chris looks exactly the same as mine with the slight flaw/ridge on the back of the grenade and the same font to the makers mark I would say it looks fine I purchased mine in a large job lot in the late 1970's 'before a certain person started his unofficial commissions As far as I am aware the L.F was not 1 of them and the sliders were normally unmarked [have k/c with unmarked sliders]
David

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by chris cunniffe

Hi could I please ask any member who knows any thing about A/A Lancashire Fusiliers badge please give me their thoughts many thanks chris

Hi Chris,

I have your email and will try and get back to you ASAP.

Regards,

Chris

[grey_green_acorn]

Chris,
There are only a limited number of Forum members who specialise in anodised aluminium cap badges. You asked about the Lancashire Fusiliers which must be one of the most rare. Indeed in my 50+ years of collecting I was convinced until about 2 years ago that they did not exist. The reason being that post WW2 the Lancashire Fusiliers wore a white LF below a grenade embroidered on a scarlet cloth oblong with their primrose yellow hackle in the dark blue beret. I did not believe that an anodised badge was necessary and indeed the LF wore the Fusilier Brigade badge from around 1958.
As there are few examples about it is difficult to offer an opinion.

Tim

[hagwalther]

Hi Chris,

It may be a couple of days until I can give a good answer. I am mainly out of internet range at the moment and I do not have a copy of my book or my notes with me.

I think that is the first marked A/A Lancashire Fusiliers cap badge that I have seen so it needs to be checked properly. In the mean time you can look at the chapter of the copy of my book that you have in the section on Timings markings.

Remember, there is a dodgy Timing marking punch out there but the section in the book explains it and what to look out for.

Do the same re: Timings sliders in the sliders chapter to see if it is covered there and is not a modern LB&B item.

Also, look for crazing from the Timings marking letters on the anodic crust of the slider. This implies that the mark was added after anodising (see manufacturing chapter) and has to be viewed with suspicion.

Best I can do at the mo.

Regards,

Chris

[leigh kitchen]

And just because the LF cloth beret badge & primrose hackle has been mentioned. a 1952 dated beret & a recruiting poster showing the badge & hackle.

[49lassiepen]

As already stated same of mine which was obtained when you would be given a/a badges just to get rid of them The only difference is the scuff mark on the grenade which mine does not have This badge was in a carrier bag of a/a badges purchased from kent auctions who held auctions in bedfordshire In my original post i said late 70's but could be mid 70's will have to find my records Chris will try and load photo of mine

David

[49lassiepen]

Chris e mailed photo's of mine
David

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Chris,
There are only a limited number of Forum members who specialise in anodised aluminium cap badges. You asked about the Lancashire Fusiliers which must be one of the most rare. Indeed in my 50+ years of collecting I was convinced until about 2 years ago that they did not exist. The reason being that post WW2 the Lancashire Fusiliers wore a white LF below a grenade embroidered on a scarlet cloth oblong with their primrose yellow hackle in the dark blue beret. I did not believe that an anodised badge was necessary and indeed the LF wore the Fusilier Brigade badge from around 1958.
As there are few examples about it is difficult to offer an opinion.

Tim

Tim,

See my chapter (17) re: " A Tangle of Territorials". The 5th Battalion of the Lancasjire Fusiliers were authorised the A/A cap badge back in the early 1960's which reconciles with the era of Timing's pieces. The document this info is contained in is:

Yeomanry Regiments in Order of Precedence, All with individual Regimental patterns of Dress, Badges and Buttons, Metal Shoulder Titles.

section:

Infantry Battalions of the Territorial Army which wear Regimental pattern dress including badges and buttons etc. except as otherwise stated in Brigade order.

This is recorded as my reference as:

Undated document titled 1. Yeomanry Regiments in Order of Precedence. Also titled 2. All with individual Regimental patterns of Dress, Badges and Buttons, Metal Shoulder Titles reference :-54/Gen A/982 (Ord.17b), labelled 17A and held in file WO 32/20559 at the National Archives, Kew, London. This document is between two others the first labelled 13A dated 10th August 1961 and the second 20A dated 15th November 1961.

Lot more info on A/A cap badges for many, many other TA Battalions in my book. Note - often only TA units received the A/A cap badge with the regular Battalions continuing with earlier WM/GM pieces. This is why many collectors jump up and down saying that the A/A badge was never authorised to this or that regiment.

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by chris cunniffe

Hi could I please ask any member who knows any thing about A/A Lancashire Fusiliers badge please give me their thoughts many thanks chris

Hi Chris,

As far as I am concerned the badge is good. From what I can see the reverse and obverse of the badge exactly match those deemed to be genuine. The slider is as per Timing's pieces (slider 5.3) and the makers mark is the early Timings mark with full stop following the 'H' and 'W'. (mark 5.1).

If available for a good price I would buy it as being marked is a bonus.

Regards

Chris

[grey_green_acorn]

Chris, I can't dispute the documentation. However, this photo is dated 1960
http://www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/gal...)/lesgroup.jpg
clearly shows 5 LF wearing the Fusiler Brigade cap badge with the primrose yellow plume feather (hackle). It would seem odd that they could revert to the LF cap badge.
Anyway could explain scarcity of actual badges!
Tim

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Chris, I can't dispute the documentation. However, this photo is dated 1960
http://www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/gal...)/lesgroup.jpg
clearly shows 5 LF wearing the Fusiler Brigade cap badge with the primrose yellow plume feather (hackle). It would seem odd that they could revert to the LF cap badge.
Anyway could explain scarcity of actual badges!
Tim

Hi Tim,

I think the doco, for the main, only records what is actually authorised - what actually happens, in some units, may well be a different thing. The Lancashire Fusiliers cap badge in A/A is a rare item and as far as I can find out for the 5th TA Battalion only. Maybe few were issued to the battalion - difficult to know but the badge does exist in A/A and doco states its authorisation.

Regards

Chris

[Paul Spellman]

AA badge possibly worn by Depot Staff on tw&t hats
Paul

[Paul Spellman]

Beret with cloth badge at Regiment for OR's
Paul

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Chris, I can't dispute the documentation. However, this photo is dated 1960
http://www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/gal...)/lesgroup.jpg
clearly shows 5 LF wearing the Fusiler Brigade cap badge with the primrose yellow plume feather (hackle). It would seem odd that they could revert to the LF cap badge.
Anyway could explain scarcity of actual badges!
Tim

The Fusiliers Brigade embraced their badge rather more than others which is reflected that post 1968 the RRF retained the same badge rather than reverting to a previous one like most of the Scots or a new design for regts amalgamated after 1958 such as the Kings.

I beleive that the A/A badge was never worn by the Regulars nor, I strongly suspect that many by the TA.