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  #1  
Old 01-09-15, 12:27 PM
didithevan didithevan is offline
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Default Officers Badge plating question

So, I understand how the silver plating (at least shiny effect, frosted is a different issue) is achieved on officers badges from having repaired one or two lugs before.
My question for today is, what was the process used for applying the gilding effect on badges? I see two sorts like the silver ones - the shiny and frosted appearance.
I have a couple of lug repairs I want to do and would like to be able to finish of the repairs so that they look reasonably as good as new (you know what I mean). These are for badges of purely personal interest (and 1 isn't even British, but one I collected on exchange that I cannot replace).

Last edited by didithevan; 01-09-15 at 02:39 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-09-15, 12:42 AM
kingsley kingsley is offline
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I asked the same question about a month ago and drew a blank. I would really like to have a restorer who could restore gilt badges in their original style. 19th Century 'dead gilt' would be nice but probably cost a fortune.
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  #3  
Old 03-09-15, 01:17 AM
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Malcolm Davey Malcolm Davey is offline
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Here are some I had re gilded, got them done in Germany illegal in UK fire gilt.
Sorry about pictures they look a lot better in the hand.

Malc
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Old 03-09-15, 05:38 AM
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Has anyone ever heard of anyone trying gold leaf on a badge to restore a missing gilt finish ?

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  #5  
Old 03-09-15, 11:23 AM
Neibelungen Neibelungen is offline
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Gold leafing doesn't work too well as to get a burnished finish you need to use water sizing rather than oil sizing for it to keep a tight 'grip' of the leaf.

Matt pure golds can be deposited to give a burnishable finish very similar to fire gilding.
Generally the biggest difference is the depth of the deposit. Fire gilding will give a depth of between 10 to 30 microns, whereas most modern plating is rarely more than about 5 and usually less than 1 especially for decorative plating.
Additionally most commercial platers will use a bright 'hard' gold over a bright nickel base as you would require at least 3 microns minimum without the nickel.
Bright 'hard' deposits are alloyed golds with minute traces of iron, nickel or cobalt to increase the hardness of the gold to resist wear.

Modern mat and burnished gold finishes are often produced with a matt lacquer over the gold and 'burnished' by removing the lacquer rather than smoothing the gold. It's very common for the production of buttons to do it this way.

It's not exactly illegal in this country as such, rather the health and safety requirements are very extreme and expensive for the fume scrubbers required and the penalties for failure very severe.
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Old 03-09-15, 11:25 AM
didithevan didithevan is offline
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Default Gilding of officers badges -

Malc, very nice. In terms of modern officers badges are they actually a gold gilt or some copper/gold mix. I can't believe the MOD would spend any more than they have to so do, especially on badges. Do they use an alternative to achieve the gilt finish or is there some means that it actually is cost effective to have them properly gilded by the manufacturers?
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Old 03-09-15, 11:54 AM
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Do MOD supply officers badges nowadays, or are they private purchase?
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Old 03-09-15, 01:12 PM
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This is the process my badges went through which I think is banned in the UK
Part of the email sent to me.

Hello Malcom,


Thank your for interest in our fire- gilding process. ( mercury gilding of the 18th century)

i´m glad to give you the following price indications.

I calculate the prices according to size of the surface and the necessary fine gold amount.

So prices are.: 1,15€ for 1cm2 + fine gold; so for 1dm2 (10x10cm) = 115,-€ + 1g fine gold + Taxe (MwSt = 19%)

The actual fine gold price is calculated in according to the daily market price (bourse) at order receipt.
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Old 03-09-15, 02:56 PM
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Malcolm,

I guesstimate that at £122 + £18 insured international postage both ways, making about £140 to re-gild a RA Helmet plate.

Thats an awful lot of money and not an amount you could recoup on an average badge.

I would have to have a very expensive badge to justify having a badge regilded I think.

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  #10  
Old 03-09-15, 03:36 PM
Neibelungen Neibelungen is offline
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Apart from the work involved, fire gilding is cheaper than plating in terms of the gold cost as it uses refined gold rather than a cyanide gold.
The former would be about £25 per gram while the latter is around £55 per gram.

The other difference is that plating would use about 20 times less gold though.
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Old 03-09-15, 03:54 PM
didithevan didithevan is offline
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Default Response to Leigh

Leigh,
The MOD do still supply officers badges. Some units still do private purchases and for some of the new regiments the quality of the newer ones is such that the badge is worn by both. Up until (relatively) recently regiments such as 9/12, RSDG, Staffords, WFR, D&D, DERR/RGBW, Cheshire, R. Scots etc had gilded/silver badges.
The embroidered beret badges and some different pattern (17/21L officers beret) and some Scottish were always privately purchased.

Last edited by didithevan; 03-09-15 at 03:56 PM. Reason: speling errors!
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  #12  
Old 03-09-15, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Malcolm,

I guesstimate that at £122 + £18 insured international postage both ways, making about £140 to re-gild a RA Helmet plate.

Thats an awful lot of money and not an amount you could recoup on an average badge.

I would have to have a very expensive badge to justify having a badge regilded I think.

regards
Hi Simon
The RA plate was 85 euros to do, approx £62 and postage £18 both ways total £98.

Malc
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Old 03-09-15, 04:20 PM
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Malc,

£100 would be OK for me, but it would have to be on a much more expensive badge.

regards
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  #14  
Old 03-09-15, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Malc,

£100 would be OK for me, but it would have to be on a much more expensive badge.

regards
I understand were your coming from Simon but what badges didn't increase in value by having this done others have doubled for what I originally paid for them but this said they are for my collection and not for sale.

Malc
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Old 03-09-15, 04:45 PM
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Malc,

Its definately something I would consider.
Could you publish the contact details please.

regards
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