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#1
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2nd Volunteer Battalion Wiltshire Regiment
Added a album of 2nd vol battion for a few days
Following Cardwell reforms of 1881 only one volunteer battalion was raised for the Wiltshire Regiment until the formation of the T/A in 1908 There was no 1st vol battalion Now for wringing of hands and banging of heads on a brick wall -o yes there is a 1st Volunteer battalion I”be seen a cap badge for sale Following army order of 1918 one of the Wiltshire V T C became the 1 st Volunteer battalion of the Wiltshire Regiment with a strength of 820 men guarding railway track A couple of 1 st Volunteer cap badges have been for sale recently -one with some other suspect Volunteer Battalions badges 1st Volunteer Battalion Wiltshire Regimental History (1st World War) published in 1919 compiled by the adjutant Capt F C Whiting The cap badge on the front if the NORMAL Wiltshire cap badge - If they had thier own cap badge and I suspect very proud of it You would assum this to be on the cover If there is photo evidence of this badge being worn I would like to see it As far as I” am aware the museum does not have this badge in thier collection Sensible /observations welcome David Last edited by 49lassiepen; 20-01-20 at 09:30 AM. |
#2
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David,
I am confused? The 1st VB Wiltshire Regt did exist, raised at Warminster in the 1880's same time as the 2nd VB at Chippenham. regards
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Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#3
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I think they were titled 1st Wiltshire Rifle Volunteers rather than VB and wore a RV cap badge.
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#4
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Correct Alan will show these 'boards at a later date
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#5
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Quote:
i believe that designation was only gained in 1891. For 10 years prior I believe they were the 1st VB Wilts. regards
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Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#6
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1860 10th Warminster Rifle volunteers raised amalgamated with 5 others 1880 to form 1st corps at Warminster 1908 became 4th battalion In 45 years of collecting never seen 1st volunteer items , none in the regiment museum collection nothing in their archives
Simon as my post please give photo evidence of any 1st volunteer badges as worn Last edited by 49lassiepen; 19-01-20 at 07:50 PM. |
#7
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Quote:
Their title of 1st Wilts RVC wasnt given to them until December 1891. That gives them 10 years as 1VB Wilts. I am unsure why you are ignoring these readily available facts. They are shown in every Army List for 10 years as such. regards
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Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#8
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I have two 1st Wiltshire RVC badges, one being the ‘Moonraker’ the other is the same as the regulars but in white metal with 1st Wiltshire RVC on the scroll.
I wonder why they refused to take up the 1st VB title on their insignia? It’s not unknown elsewhere too. |
#9
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Keith like you I have these I know about the army list as per Manchesters reply , - 10 years with no insignia ?????
But as said before never seen any insignia except for the cap badge as 1st post expect to be informed these are the badges of1881 Perhaps my 1st post should have been only one vol battalion raised who had insignia of the volunteers Decided to delete all albums not worth the effort of sharing items Thank you for a sensible/helpful reply Wish others were the same David Last edited by 49lassiepen; 20-01-20 at 12:24 AM. |
#10
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Quote:
How childish. My reply was very sensible/helpful as it was correcting your gross inaccuracy in your opening post. Quite simply there WAS a 1st VB Wilts for 10 years. If you cant engage in a debate its without resorting to tantrums its a shame.
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Simon Butterworth Manchester Regiment Collector Rank, Prize & Trade Badges British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges |
#11
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Let me add to the confusion of the correct designations.
The mass consolidation of 1880 created: 1st Administrative Battalion of Wiltshire Rifle Volunteers > 1st Wiltshire Rifle Volunteer Corps and 2nd Administrative Battalion of Wiltshire Rifle Volunteers > 3rd Wiltshire Rifle Volunteer Corps Later in 1880 there was the renumbering to fill the gaps: 3rd Wiltshire Rifle Volunteer Corps > 2nd Wiltshire Rifle Volunteer Corps In 1881 both were attached to The Duke of Edinburgh's (Wiltshire Regiment) as volunteer battalions, but the designations were not changed at that moment in time. Over the years that followed regiment by regiment these volunteer battalions were re-designated as Volunteer Battalions. If I am correct, the first was Prince Albert's (Somersetshire Light Infantry) and the last re-designations were in about 1887. Not all volunteer battalions were re-designated. And for the Wiltshire Regiment the 1st was not and the 2nd was in 1887: 2nd Wiltshire Rifle Volunteer Corps > 2nd Volunteer Battalion, The Duke of Edinburgh's (Wiltshire Regiment) In 1891 those in power decided that all still existing Rifle Volunteer Corps should be re-designated as Volunteer Rifle Corps (I assume that most corps simply ignored this, in any case they did not change their badges to reflect this): 1st Wiltshire Rifle Volunteer Corps > 1st Wiltshire Volunteer Rifle Corps In 1908, they merged to become: 4th Battalion, The Duke of Edinburgh's (Wiltshire Regiment) (TF)
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Henk Interested in the lineage of the unit your badge represents? Try: Regimental lineages |
#12
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However, somewhere along the line someone maybe in the war office was because Gaylor numbers them all in his book. The Harrow Rifles do have a badge stating 4th VB KRRC. It appears some RVC's chose not to and continued to produce their insignia accordingly. I'm sure a trawl through Westlake will come up with more. |
#13
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Quote:
This count does not include the 27th Middlesex (Harrow School) VRC (created in 1902). The list is based on Westlake and maybe easier to browse then the book
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Henk Interested in the lineage of the unit your badge represents? Try: Regimental lineages |
#14
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Back to The Wiltshire’s. Westlake clearly states “Became a VB (without a change in title) of the Wiltshire Regiment in 1881”.
My interpretation of this is that that were never referred to as the 1st VB. Last edited by Keith Blakeman; 20-01-20 at 06:56 PM. |
#15
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I agree with that. It’s not that there was no Wiltshire battalion with the status of 1st VB, it’s just that there was a specific decision not to use that title, and to retain instead a RVC/VRC title. As mentioned earlier, there were several units that did this, most famously the 1st Surrey’s. In general the transition from RVC to VB was hugely controversial because it brought the hitherto semi-independent VF and its gentlemens’ club culture into the same orbit as the two, constitutional forces, the regular army and the militia. There was significant resistance to this in specific areas and the refusal to adopt VB titles was a manifestation of that stance.
Last edited by Toby Purcell; 22-01-20 at 07:35 PM. |
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