GUARDS RSM BIG BADGE, LITTLE BADGE ...... - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

grumpy · #1 13-12-23, 06:18 PM

Major Dawnay's masterful JSAHR book on the badges of British Army WO and NCO notes the brief [and, no doubt, grudging] case of the SMs losing the Royal Arms badge for a period from about 1885 to about 1894, both dates deduced by him, without specific support by regulation. Dawnay says that in this period the crown was worn in lieu.
I can now firm up the return of the Big Badge to the tunic, which definitely was to replace the crown [crown worn on the lower arm] in 1890/91. The Royal Arms was to be above the elbow, right arm only. The RACD ledger deals with the matter in great detail over the two years 1890/1

However [there is always a however] photographs of the SM wearing the crown are difficult to find, even if only we cannot be sure that a soldier wearing the crown was indeed the sergeant major, as there were several appointments also mandated thus.

My research has narrowed the theoretical crown period, but I think it likely that inherent resistance narrowed it even more. What would be good to see is a named and titled SM wearing the crown badge ...... dated would be the icing on the cake.

grenadierguardsman · #2 13-12-23, 06:41 PM

A photo like that is going to be hard to come by Grumpy.
Andy

grenadierguardsman · #3 14-12-23, 06:08 PM

I sent this to Grumpy, and the below information is from him. I can't take credit for that, but thank Grumpy for this,
The best clue is the Khedive's star, which the Grenadier Guards qualified for in two years: 1st Battalion 1882, 3rd Battalion 1891. The photo is at least as old as 1892 ( say ) or as old as 1883 ( say ).
We cannot be confident of rank, as the superintending clerk also wore the crown badge ( Dawnay ) c. 1887.
The wearing on the bearskin cap in camp ( tent behind ) suggests strongly that the soldier is indeed the Regimental Sergeant Major because, from what little I know, except for the most formal occasions the clerk and similar WO's and senior NCO's would have worn the handsome forage cap with drooped peak. The bearskin is very big, almost officer shape, another suggestion of the Regimental Sergeant Major perhaps.
Andy ( pic )
Grump ( info )

grumpy · #4 15-12-23, 11:14 AM

I must revisit the RACD ledger c. 1885 ............. looking for a firm mandate "start wearing the crown, no more Royal Arms to be provided". The latter was very expensive compared with the crown.

grenadierguardsman · #5 15-12-23, 12:57 PM

Most definitely, the embroidery on the Royal Coat of Arms badge, must have been expensive. I will say, I believe the " big badge " quality has dwindled massively ?!
Andy

54Bty · #6 15-12-23, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

Most definitely, the embroidery on the Royal Coat of Arms badge, must have been expensive. I will say, I believe the " big badge " quality has dwindled massively ?!
Andy

The ones that have been used (worn) recently are the worst I have ever seen. Lets hope that the official MoD issued versions are back up to a decent standard.

Marc