British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Other Army Departments and Corps Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-07-18, 09:44 AM
Expat Yeoman's Avatar
Expat Yeoman Expat Yeoman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 243
Default Essex Corps of Guides

A pretty rare badge of which I have seen three examples.

All three have a small brass disc to the reverse with what I assume to be a serial number of issue.

Do members have any examples of this badge and, if so, what number do they have? Thinking this might give an indication of how many were produced and issued.

Or are there any examples without, which might disprove my theory?

EY
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Essex COG.jpg (72.7 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg Corps of Guides back.jpg (77.8 KB, 40 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-07-18, 05:28 PM
Sonofacqms's Avatar
Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,624
Smile Essex Corps of Guides

This is to my mind an unusual badge as the Cambridgeshire and the Suffolk Corps of Guides badges were buttonhole type in brass and enamel, as to whether other counties followed this pattern for badges I don't know.

There is an Essex Cadet badge which is based on the same pattern, so perhaps Essex had them made by the same manufacturer.

It would be interesting to see if other members have any different Corps of Guides badges.

Rob
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-07-18, 10:45 PM
Expat Yeoman's Avatar
Expat Yeoman Expat Yeoman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofacqms View Post

There is an Essex Cadet badge which is based on the same pattern, so perhaps Essex had them made by the same manufacturer.

Rob
Rob, also Essex National Reserve, Essex Veterans and Essex VAD in that pattern which follow the Essex Yeomanry design of the same time. I suspect that reflects Col Colvin's hand as he was Chair of the TF Association at the time.

I've only seen the Corps of Guides type with the numbering though.

Michael

Last edited by Expat Yeoman; 07-07-18 at 10:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-07-18, 07:05 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 996
Smile

Hi Michael,

Very nice and I'd think a bit unusual.

Regards Phil.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-07-18, 04:46 AM
Terry Rayner Terry Rayner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide formally Romford
Posts: 204
Default

Thanks Michael
That's another badge to look out for.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-07-18, 12:44 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat Yeoman View Post
A pretty rare badge of which I have seen three examples.

All three have a small brass disc to the reverse with what I assume to be a serial number of issue.

Do members have any examples of this badge and, if so, what number do they have? Thinking this might give an indication of how many were produced and issued.

Or are there any examples without, which might disprove my theory?

EY
EY, sorry for being a thicko but who exactly were the Essex Corps of Guides?.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-07-18, 04:34 PM
Expat Yeoman's Avatar
Expat Yeoman Expat Yeoman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
who exactly were the Essex Corps of Guides?.
A very reasonable question, not s lot of info about them out there!

As I understand it (and would welcome any further info on this topic from members) they were one of several bodies formed prior to WW1 for home defence duties. In this case, to provide individuals with local knowledge of their County to support Home Army commanders.

They were at a County level although I couldn't say if every County formed one. I would suspect the Counties on the eastern side of the country were more likely to. The Essex one was formed in 1912 and I haven't been able to establish when they ceased to exist (possibly 1922 when the National Reserve was abolished.)

As they were not enlisted into the Army and therefore didn't get a uniform they were issued a lapel badge to meet The Hague Convention requirements.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-07-18, 05:01 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4,248
Default

Surrey were the first County to form one.

the idea was that they be drawn from farmers, hunting men and similar, all of whom would be quite old so not in the military and not necessarily have any military abilities.

They worked under the 'Chief Guide' who was responsible to the TF Association of the County.

As far as I am aware it was just Counties in the Eastern Command with a coastline that could or did form a Corps of Guides.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-07-18, 06:08 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat Yeoman View Post
A very reasonable question, not s lot of info about them out there!

As I understand it (and would welcome any further info on this topic from members) they were one of several bodies formed prior to WW1 for home defence duties. In this case, to provide individuals with local knowledge of their County to support Home Army commanders.

They were at a County level although I couldn't say if every County formed one. I would suspect the Counties on the eastern side of the country were more likely to. The Essex one was formed in 1912 and I haven't been able to establish when they ceased to exist (possibly 1922 when the National Reserve was abolished.)

As they were not enlisted into the Army and therefore didn't get a uniform they were issued a lapel badge to meet The Hague Convention requirements.
EY, thanks for that, just goes to prove you're never too old to learn.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-07-18, 06:13 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Surrey were the first County to form one.

the idea was that they be drawn from farmers, hunting men and similar, all of whom would be quite old so not in the military and not necessarily have any military abilities.

They worked under the 'Chief Guide' who was responsible to the TF Association of the County.

As far as I am aware it was just Counties in the Eastern Command with a coastline that could or did form a Corps of Guides.

regards
Thanks Simon, it's amazing what you learn on this forum.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-07-18, 09:55 AM
TWGB's Avatar
TWGB TWGB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 133
Default Shropshire

Not just coastal...

However, another relatively undocumented WW! home front area, and the Forum pushing at another frontier!

It would be good to compile a list; any other offerings?

Thanks,

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Shropshire Corps of Guides.JPG (31.0 KB, 11 views)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-07-18, 11:51 AM
BROOKIES BROOKIES is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 472
Default

Here you go one for Glamorgan (makers mark for Gaunt)

Ta

Jonathan

DSC05461 (2).jpgDSC05444 (1).jpg
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-07-18, 05:43 PM
Expat Yeoman's Avatar
Expat Yeoman Expat Yeoman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 243
Default

Anyone have another Essex example, and if so is it numbered?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-07-18, 07:11 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 996
Smile

Hi Michael

Ive had a look on a number of dealers site on line, however the only Guides badges listed are the Indian, Victorian Corps of Guides. Don't think that this helps much !

Regards

Phil.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 14-07-18, 10:44 PM
green_anorak green_anorak is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
EY, sorry for being a thicko but who exactly were the Essex Corps of Guides?.
Prior to the beginning of World War One, fear of invasion once again plagued the British psyche. In anticipation of war or possible invasion, some of the county Territorial Army associations began their own preparations by forming specific units. A War Office memorandum, retained in the Public Records Office and dated 4th October 1912, contains direction to the Secretary of the Territorial Force Association of Surrey. The memo states that the Army Council had decided to allow County Associations to raise ‘Corps of Guides’ as part of the Technical Reserve with the intention of such persons being able to be employed in war with troops operating in the neighbourhood. In addition to laying down the organisation of the Guides units, the War Office letter (PRO reference WO 32/4744) also states that Guides need not possess military training or bear arms unless they are actually serving in the armed forces of the Crown. It was also directed that the Guides also need not wear uniform unless they are so serving. The letter goes on to state that ‘any distinguishing badge required by the Hague Convention would be supplied from public store’. It seems that (at least in the case of the Surrey Guides), this requirement not to wear uniform may have been ignored. In fact, (according to an article in Navy & Army Illustrated, Vol III, No. 33 dated 3 April 1915) the Surrey Guides had already formed up by that time. The article states that the unit came into existence in 1900, but most observers assess that it had probably only been operating since 1910. They had been founded as a volunteer force by Colonel Sir Frank Dormay Watney with the help of John St. La Strachey, the editor of ‘The Spectator’. They enrolled country dwellers, farmers and gamekeepers to act as guides for troops across country, by day and by night, and carried out their first field exercise in October 1912 when 35 mounted men took part at Ewhurst. There is uncertainty about headgear which may at first have been a peaked cap with red band or ‘a soft green hat with a badge of jay’s feathers’, but there is no doubt about the final version of the uniform: a military-style uniform of green serge with riding breeches and a badge for cap or lapel depicting Mercury (winged messenger of the Gods) on a globe. The badge worn in the cap was in fact a version of that later worn by some recruits to the Royal Signals whilst in training. It is likely that this emblem was adopted (for want of anything more appropriate) by the Corps of Guides. I have examples of the Essex, Suffolk, Ayrshire and Northumberland Corps of Guides lapel badges.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:53 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.