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  #16  
Old 26-05-16, 07:42 PM
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Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
Mike - EXCEPTIONAL!
The story goes that when the badge was first issued it received a great deal of criticism from outside the unit - not seen that drawing before!
I am very fortunate to have a couple of attributed ones - here is one.
Worn by 2 SBS only. As you say - a very small unit - Nominal Roll in Geoffrey Courtney's Book 'SBS in World War Two' suggests about 34 at Saltcoats in 1942 before reinforcement at Hillhead 1942-43 of about 65. Far fewer names by the time of posting to Far East - A rare thing.

Marc - I can understand the confusion!

Mike
My summary:
2 SBS.Text.04.jpgMike
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  #17  
Old 26-05-16, 08:46 PM
Danny Danny is offline
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Hi,
I think the caption on the http://www.rmhistorical.com/images/Misc.pdf website might be in the wrong place.

The RM Museum has/had the badge with the frog/parachute, under the shooting team badges on page 3, on display and it is this one that Tom Boardman is credited with designing.

I seem to remember being told that they were embroidered by his wife. No confirmation of this though.

Regards

Danny
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  #18  
Old 26-05-16, 08:50 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Danny - pretty sure you are right. I recall the artwork for the 'frog' badge being sold recently. The other badge on that page may be the blazer badge - again 2SBS (Army Commando) - I have one here which looks similar.
Mike

Last edited by Mike B; 26-05-16 at 08:59 PM.
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  #19  
Old 27-05-16, 05:00 AM
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Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
Hi,
I think the caption on the http://www.rmhistorical.com/images/Misc.pdf website might be in the wrong place.

The RM Museum has/had the badge with the frog/parachute, under the shooting team badges on page 3, on display and it is this one that Tom Boardman is credited with designing.

I seem to remember being told that they were embroidered by his wife. No confirmation of this though.

Regards

Danny
Thanks - understood! Whichever way one slices it though - the 2 SBS badge has absolutely nothing to do with the Royals, notwithstanding Mountbatten's attempted take-over bid! Having said that. a few years ago I gave a repro 2 SBS badge to CO SBS after I met him on an unrelated exercise in Cyprus agonising over the design for what is now the SBS beret badge. He did draw upon the 1942 design (the waves in particular). Mike
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  #20  
Old 27-05-16, 07:27 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Mike
A very interesting insight! - regarding the modern badge
When Courtney refused to rebadge his unit as RM I think the treatment of him and his brother was 'shabby'.
Unconventional characters - when Roger was buried (outside Hargeisa) a hole was left with a tube, covered by a cannon ball, going down to his mouth. Friends used to return, lift the cannon ball, and give him a 'Tot' of gin on special occasions. It is reported the tradition continued long after people remembered who 'old Roger' was.

Mike
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  #21  
Old 27-05-16, 06:24 PM
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Phill Lockett Phill Lockett is offline
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Thanks guys for the input.

I have learnt something new about the original SBS. I always assumed it stood for Special Boat Squadron from inception.

Thanks for the story of Roger Courtney Jumbo and his brother Gruff. I looked up google.

Sounds like they were the type of individuals that made the early unconventional and disliked special operations by the conventional thoughts of the time.

Adventurer, soldier and iconic figures with personalities that only war could produce -not bad for a bank clerk! Not to sure what Gruff did but such leaders tend to be the "oddball" thinkers of the time.

Phill
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  #22  
Old 27-05-16, 08:25 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Modern SBS has a hugely complex family tree - 2 SBS is one of many units that had input to its development in terms of techniques, personnel etc. Several obscure RM bodies included, but also Army Commando Boat Units etc as Mike J has pointed out. It is difficult to imagine how veterans adapted to peacetime in many instances, given the circumstances in which they operated and the 'colourful' characteristics many of them shared.
Mike
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  #23  
Old 29-05-16, 08:34 AM
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Phill Lockett Phill Lockett is offline
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Hi guys

Have just come across this pic and website of shoulder title being worn above Special Service Brigade.

Can anyone confirm this is late WWII or post WWII era , based on uniform or any other distinguishing marks.

http://195.188.87.10/history/ww2peop...a4396962.shtml

Phill
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File Type: jpg RMC .jpg (17.8 KB, 56 views)
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  #24  
Old 30-05-16, 10:44 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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My guess (only) is that if one of the stories listed is 'evacuees', and 'if' the chap is talking about personal experience of evacuation - this image is post war. The Commando Group sign was introduced late war (permission sought Nov 1944) - others may have further ideas that would help.
Mike
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  #25  
Old 31-05-16, 09:43 PM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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The cut of the collar and the wearing of an open collar with tie by an OR suggests late War-post War also.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #26  
Old 31-05-16, 11:24 PM
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Phill Lockett Phill Lockett is offline
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Thanks Mike B and Thomas.

At least we can now date it to circa Nov. 44-46(?) period.


Phill
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  #27  
Old 01-06-16, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
The cut of the collar and the wearing of an open collar with tie by an OR suggests late War-post War also.

Rgds, Thomas.
Could be 1950s or as late as the early 1960s and the introduction of Lovats - in my opinion. Mike
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  #28  
Old 01-06-16, 07:26 AM
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Phill Lockett Phill Lockett is offline
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Thanks Mike

All opinions welcomed , as it adds to the discussion that helps me understand a little bit more of Royal Marines Commando WWII/post war period.


Phill
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  #29  
Old 01-06-16, 10:30 AM
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Postwarden Postwarden is offline
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If I may go back to the original question about the Royal Marines Commando title, the answer is on the RM Badges website but you have to dig.

On 23rd November 1945 Royal Marine Routine Order 1999 headed Dress Regulations states "The following Dress regulations have been approved since 1939" and then lists a number of items under the heading Arm Badges.

All RM units are to wear "Badges, Arm, Woven, Royal Marines" but in addition it specifies for the Commando Group;
Badges, Arm, Woven, Commando,
Badges, Arm, Woven Numeral,
Badges, Arm, Embroidered, Red Dagger on blue triangle.

The three "Badges, Arm, Woven" are clearly the Cash's tapes version we all know.

However RMRO 2135 issued on 18th December 1945 amends the details for the Commando Group badges and instructs that all the detail for the Commando Group (as listed above) should be deleted and replaced with
"Badges, Arm, Embroidered, Royal Marines Commando" and Badges, Arm, Printed, Red Dagger on Blue triangle".

So for the Commando group all the Cash's tapes have been removed and the embroidered dagger badge replaced with a printed version - like those shown on the attached scan.

Which means that the full title of the original question is post-war, albeit only by a few months.

Now all we need to do is solve the riddle of the embroidered title "Royal Marine/Commando"

The photo earlier on this thread of the Marine in battledress shows him wearing the 1949 pattern BD which would not have reached most marines before 1950 at the earliest.

Jon
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  #30  
Old 01-06-16, 10:43 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Jon
As authoritative as ever! Many thanks
Mike
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