EU referendum

[Just]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

I dare say you are rather amused at this point in time?

Oh Yes !!

unfortunately, I don't envy you guys

Didier

[leigh kitchen]

Irrespective of whether or not I support exiting or remaining, as usual the behaviour of self seeking politicians if all hues disgusts me.
Remain and get on with life or form a coalition to obtain what's best for the country if leaving.
The whole fracas thoroughly hacks me off.

[GriffMJ]

Global trade between Nations yes.... "Globalism" no thanks.

[Volunteer Soldier]

An interview on BBC this morning;
JH. Suppose Mrs May wins a vote of confidence by only one vote?
Cabinet Minister. A win is a win!
He should of course added - But not in a referendum.

[Hoot]

Surely, anyone seeing the sheer delight that Juncker, Tusk, Macron and all their leering cronies are getting from making May squirm should be enough. Two and a half years of pointless discussion and the EU mob are loving it. I just wish Great Britain would show what it's made of and just walk away and sod the consequences. Enough is enough.

[BWEF]

Sod the consequences? "The consequences" would be austerity continuing for decades and the loss of much of our industry.

Now, the Jacob-Rees Moggs of this world stand to make a fortune from a "no deal" Brexit. The average citizen of the UK, not so much money but plenty of "cuts". Cuts to the NHS. the police, social services etc etc.

I am amazed that so many people find common cause with "Lord Snooty". A man supposedly the richest man in the House of Commons with a long established business in Singapore, who has just opened offices in Dublin, so that he can still take advantage of EU rules.

How much money is enough money? The leaked "Paradise Papers" show that Rees- Mogg has half a million quid salted away in a tax haven, and that it just the dosh they found.

In case some of you people have yet to realise it Brexit is a pipe dream. It can be done without wrecking the economy, which depends on the single market and frictionless trade. Also, if you do not much care for EU rules you will hate WTO rules. You owe it to yourself to find out what they are.

Have you not noticed the government trying to do the impossible for over two years and now descending into chaos when "push came to shove"?

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Have you not noticed the government trying to do the impossible for over two years and now descending into chaos when "push came to shove"?

I have noticed that the remainers have done everything in their power to reverse the largest democratic vote in the UKs history. The PM is a remainer..... cabinet are remainers..... Whitehall are remainers. This PM is just wasting time..... valuable time. We could have been out by now.

* Look at some of the "Champagne" Socialists..... came into Westminster as normal people and are now multi millionaires. How does that happen on an MPs/PMs salary? Kinnock & Blair are classic cases. Young Kinnock..... having been to a very posh school and basically a Toff.... is now wearing a red rose! Four legs bad two legs good eh!?

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

I have noticed that the remainers have done everything in their power to reverse the largest democratic vote in the UKs history. The PM is a remainer..... cabinet are remainers..... Whitehall are remainers.

You have been sold a pup and/or have a very selective memory. Brexiteers have been involved all along.

David Davis, the original Brexiteer Brexit Secretary achieved sod all, despite ambitions that a cynic would say were total BS.claiming that the trade deal:

"would most likely be concluded “within between 12 and 24 months” and would comprise a free trade area “massively larger than the EU”, most likely including Hong Kong, Canada, Australia, India, Japan, the UAE, Indonesia – “and many others”."

Dominic Raab, the replacement Brexiteer Brexit Secretary, suddenly realised how important Dover was to our economy, and he didn't hang around in the job that long did he?

Somebody must have told him that the RAF had contingency plans to fly in insulin, medication for asthmatics and the radioactive items needed to treat cancer patients.

Kent police et al have "Operation Brock" on stand by.A vast 10 mile long lorry park on the motorway that will kick in if WTO rules apply in the event of a "no deal" Brexit. That would be the end of the "just in time" business model that
keeps "our" car factories open:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...xit-lorry-park

As for your "largest democratic vote in history". Have you forgotten that nearly half of the people who voted voted remain? The vote was also rigged by the Tory majority in the House of Commons who voted down the Lords amendment to give 16 year olds a say in their future. Not to mention the breaking of electoral funding laws and Russian involvement.

All of this is just so many words. The reality is that no deal will get through the House of Commons and, that if Brexit were possible it would lead to the break up of the UK.

Put simply, people were conned into voting for Brexit, but there is a lot more to Brexit than millions of scribbles on a bit of paper. Short of a time machine it can not be done, and it never could have been done. No matter who tried.

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Sod the consequences? "The consequences" would be austerity continuing for decades and the loss of much of our industry.

We have had austerity for the last ten years, our industry has been decimated over the last 45 years and we are over £1,000,000,000,000,000,000 in debt. All of this whilst we are in the EU.

We need to leave and reset everything, start manufacturing and exporting again and, I don't mean the current system of making a part in one European country, sending it to a second for finishing and a third for assembling. A wasteful, polluting and expensive exercise designed to ensure that no individual nation can stand on its own two feet

I watched a report on the news recently about the Pashley bicycle factory where the director said that if there were delays at customs the production line would grind to a halt as their saddles were made in Italy and arrived just in time. Some of us are old enough to remember the B.S.A. and Raleigh bicycle factories where every part of the bicycle was made in Britain and we only imported the raw materials. Whatever happened to stores and storekeeper's managing spares?

If we beg to be allowed to stay we will probably be forced to accept ever closer political union and the Euro.

[BWEF]

Well, if we are adding cartoons:

[GriffMJ]

I have a more positive outlook and faith that... as always.... the UK has a better future.

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by High Wood

We have had austerity for the last ten years, our industry has been decimated over the last 45 years and we are over £1,000,000,000,000,000,000 in debt. All of this whilst we are in the EU.

We need to leave and reset everything, start manufacturing and exporting again and, I don't mean the current system of making a part in one European country, sending it to a second for finishing and a third for assembling. A wasteful, polluting and expensive exercise designed to ensure that no individual nation can stand on its own two feet

I watched a report on the news recently about the Pashley bicycle factory where the director said that if there were delays at customs the production line would grind to a halt as their saddles were made in Italy and arrived just in time. Some of us are old enough to remember the B.S.A. and Raleigh bicycle factories where every part of the bicycle was made in Britain and we only imported the raw materials. Whatever happened to stores and storekeeper's managing spares?

If we beg to be allowed to stay we will probably be forced to accept ever closer political union and the Euro.

Yes, we do need to reset everything. I couldn't agree with you more. But leaving the EU is not the answer.

Where would we get the money to rebuild industry? Theresa May has already offered American big business access to our NHS as part of any trade deal. That is how desperate we will be.

This country spent the wealth of Empire in winning WW1. Got into debt and nearly went bankrupt winning WW2. Then we lost the Empire so that by the 1960s we were on our uppers. We applied to join the EEC three times before we finally got in. The fact that the French vetoed us, and yet we still kept trying is ample illustration of how badly off we were.

I would say that the "just in time" model was devised by big business to make money. More to do with Nissan, Honda et al than the EU. However, you are 40 or 50 years too late to return to the far better system.

When Brexit fails you can blame the globalist Margaret Thatcher. We couldn't cope in world markets when we had coal mining, heavy industry etc that she shut down. If I remember correctly she gave tax breaks to these car firms to come here and assemble cars for the European market.

This would be besides selling our utilities to foreigners. Thatcher also warmly embraced the single market and our industry is enmeshed within it. Leaving the EU will prove to be an economic disaster for the man in the street. Disaster capitalists will make a fortune.

If you think there were delays at the Pashley bike factory due to saddles being imported, google and find out what will happen at Dover in the event of a "no deal" Brexit.

As for "being allowed to say". No begging would be involved. The Briton who wrote Article 50, Lord Kerr, always said that we could simply withdraw it. This has now been confirmed by European Courts. We would also be allowed to keep all the opt outs that we negotiated over the years. Not in the Euro, not in the Schengen etc.

Any deal that we end up with after next March can not be as good as the one we will have left. We had the best of both worlds, free access to the largest single market in the world, plus opt outs that some other EU countries do not have.

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

I have a more positive outlook and faith that... as always.... the UK has a better future.

I suppose we cant all be realistic.

I can remember people saying that the EU would fall apart, but it now seems far more likely that the UK will fall apart.

[GriffMJ]

Just a reminder..... this was an advert to sell a fizzy drink. Its not reality (it never will be)....... it just sold lots of fizzy drink.

[High Wood]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-34948557

Sheffield once the home of the British steel industry had its new tram system tendered out to the EU under their rules. The trams were made in Spain and the rails in Germany. Please tell me how that has benefited the workers of Sheffield that once made the finest steel in the world and the workers of Lancashire and Wiltshire that once made the finest locomotives and railway carriages?

The EU is a three card trick, it does not create prosperity it simply moves existing factories to poorer nations and then claims it has raised the standard of living in those countries. Ask the workers from the Ford Transit factory in Southampton if the EU funding that moved their factory to Turkey raised their standard of living,