Strange badged smock - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Tanker Mike · #1 08-03-13, 11:31 PM

Here is a Canadian Airborne jump smock with some unusual wings, I have never seen the Canadian wings on the sleeve. Pilots wings on the brest where the jump wings should be?

I think this is a made up smock, those snaps should be well used and scratched up if the smock was issued and used.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/350732961800?...800%26_rdc%3D1

Mike

tynesideirish · #2 09-03-13, 12:40 AM

Nah, I think it's OK Mike. There is wear, but I've got my last smock, worn around camp etc, and it still looks nearly new too. I don't know what the Canadian regs are, can't wear two brevets in the same place, so moving Para Wings to arm seems logical. There was a little RAF guy who often jumped with us and he had pilots wings on chest and Para wings on arm.

edstorey · #3 09-03-13, 01:23 AM

When looking at the badge combination, you have to ask why would a Pilot be issued a Parachute Smock? 427 Sqn supported the SSF and were Air Force, so finding out with supporting documentation that they were issued these smocks would seal it.

An interesting badge combination and one that looks suspect but could have a story behind it. Having a name attached to the garment is key although taking this item at face value based on the insignia could be misleading.

Phillip Herring · #4 09-03-13, 03:54 AM

A possibility is that the owner was a pilot who was jump qualified and on the brigade staff prior to the introduction of elemental uniforms.
You would really need to ask the person who wore the smock.

Phil

servicepub · #5 09-03-13, 05:16 AM

My understanding is that Cdn wings would NOT be worn on the sleeve. Although there were (and are) specific instructions on the wear of multiple skill badges on DEU's the rules were silent on the wear of these on the SSF jump smock. Nonetheless, Canadian badges would be worn on the breasts with the sleeve badge usually limited to the British 'wings' in respect of British usage.
When I did my Para course in the mid 70's a number of the instructional staff wore multiple brevets. The Canadian wings were always worn on the left breast with US and other foreign wings worn on the right side. The exception being British wings which were worn on the sleeve.
Here, we have a smock with two Canadian brevets and I see no reason why the jump wings would be on the sleeve.
If this was worn by one of the chopper pilots, based at Petawawa (as I cannot think of any other pilot would would qualify for both AND have a smock which was limited to the SSF) then the challenge would be limited to 'which' badge would be worn in the primary location (left breast). In any event, the second Canadian badge would be worn below or on the right breast.
I wouldn't pay any extra for this smock beyond the sum of the parts.
Clive

Phillip Herring · #6 09-03-13, 04:58 PM

I have seen Search and Rescue Technicians who had teh Para course wearing the jump wing on their shoulder as well as the SAR Tech wing on their chest - this was on the orange flight suit.
Another possibility for this badge combination could be a pilot who later became a Medical Officer or Dental Officer within the SSF. I have known of a couple of pilots who did make the switch.
What I am getting at is that the badge combination is possible, but you would really need to get solid proof.

Phil

Infanteer · #7 09-03-13, 05:48 PM

Odd that SAR techs would wear the jump wings in addition to their SAR qualification badge (which has a parachute on it) considering all SAR techs are jumpers since it's a basic part of their trade....

servicepub · #8 09-03-13, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Herring

I have seen Search and Rescue Technicians who had teh Para course wearing the jump wing on their shoulder as well as the SAR Tech wing on their chest - this was on the orange flight suit.

Phil

Hi Phil,
This would be most unusual. If you find any photos I would like to see them.
The Canadian wear of wings on the chest was a fought-for distinction. The Brits refused to allow this as the RAF claimed that jumpers would be confused with aircrew. The Brit Paras asked Canada to adopt the British method of wear but Canada, with a nod to the US where most of the early training was undertaken, refused and held out for the right breast.
Based on this I am surprised that the Cdn airborne community would allow this.

Clive

evan 71 · #9 09-03-13, 06:53 PM

I dont think the rules on the smocks or SAR Tech suits were too rigidly enforced.There were guys with multiple foreign wings on them.Once i saw French wings on the sleeve.dEU'S were more carefully monitored.

edstorey · #10 09-03-13, 08:28 PM

Yes, I agree that it was not that uncommon to see muliple parachute wings worn on some smocks, but this process was controlled and if you look carefully at their placement you will see that the order makes sense. As well, the multiple badges were parachute, pathfinder and some specialist skills like combat diver.

In this case we have Pilot wings on a parachute smock, a very unconventional combination on a garment that pilots were not taditionally issued with.

With this in mind, the selling price should be no more then the sum of the parts.

sapper 83 · #11 11-03-13, 02:01 PM

I know there were armoured officers who flew helicopters. They may have been attached to the airborne and had the flight wings before they got there jump wings

cw2311 · #12 26-03-13, 01:16 AM

Gents,

Any qualification badge that has a crown or is a trade that is normally to be worn over the left breast pocket takes precedence over jump wings. ie: Combat diver, rigger, etc… Your jump wing qualification would then be moved to your sleeve of your jump smock. This was often seen with Airforce members. Perhaps this fellow started with the airforce then moved to CAR?... Who knows, but is possible. This being said, even non jump qualified clerks wore jump smocks who were attached to CAR, just no wings.

Cheers!

edstorey · #13 26-03-13, 02:53 AM

Where are you drawing this information from? Perhaps you have a document or images that support your statement?

cw2311 · #14 26-03-13, 11:04 AM

Edstorey,

I can see if I have some dress regulation orders I can post.

After CAR disbanded 1995, and the Airborne school moved from Edmonton to 8 Wing Trenton, the school staff continued to wear smocks up until around 1999 or 2000. 8 Wing Trenton is an Airforce Base, so you would see this practice fairly often.

Cheers!

jranrose · #15 26-03-13, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub

Hi Phil,
This would be most unusual. If you find any photos I would like to see them.
The Canadian wear of wings on the chest was a fought-for distinction. The Brits refused to allow this as the RAF claimed that jumpers would be confused with aircrew. The Brit Paras asked Canada to adopt the British method of wear but Canada, with a nod to the US where most of the early training was undertaken, refused and held out for the right breast.
Based on this I am surprised that the Cdn airborne community would allow this.

Clive