Machine Gun Corps

[Panther]

posted this earlier in the Great War Forum and one of the Senior members suggested that I post here where specialist Mgc collextors might be able to advise re dating this cap badge (if Indeed it is original ?)

[Luke H]

Repro.

Same stable (Martin Marsh catalogue) as this fake MGC RND https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WWI-ROYAL...9a64%7Ciid%3A1 note the lack of definition behind the crown and they’ve just stuck a couple extra loops on.

Many of these fakes have a abnormally wide aperture between the pearls and cross at the centre of the crown.

[Amy]

I agree with Luke. Martin and his mum (Margaret?) sold these in large numbers 10-20 years back from somewhere in Dorset...Weymouth maybe (?) so most of these repro's will now have built up twenty years worth of patina? Very sad.

[Panther]

does look very similiar - just thought it seemed a lot of effort for a cheap fake !

[Home Guard]

Excellent information. I collected MGC badges back 20 years ago, and at least none of mine have the gap you show. That said, I am still sure some of the ones I have are fakes. But they do make a nice display, so I am happy.







Terry

[Luke H]

Both Gaunt marked badges are fake I’m afraid.

The plaque itself is also fake, these appeared about 10 years ago. I can tell from the size of the mark on the shank that it is the 15mm repro mark.

The RND MGC will also be fake. The Tank Corps appears to be a ‘spanner’ fake. Sadly your MMG badge also looks like a repro.

Sorry for the bad news but as you say they still make a nice display.

[Home Guard]

No worry Luke. Except for the one Gaunt badge, the ones you ID as fake are the ones I assumed too. The dug one supposedly came from the Somme, but of course no way to confirm it. As I said, I like the display so can be happy with it. I do hope a few are good through.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Terry

[Milmed]

... and the Regiment President Steyn is also one of the 1970's repro's, sorry

[Luke H]

Not a genuine badge.

[Nozzer]

Hello David,

Not good I'm afraid. The style of Machine gun badge is wrong and should be constructed using the "tall crown" version. Also yours would appear to have the tell tale fault in the crown as illustrated below.

[Staffsyeoman]

My thanks too, to Nozzer; for vindication. The times I have told people that the original MMG badges - as the Motor Machine Gun Service, a precursor to the MGC, should have - to put it prosaically "big, tall crown + "fat" guns" and been howled at by people who have bought duds at high cost based on a bad copy standard MGC badge are countless.

Next episode; "No, that Royal Naval Division MGC badge isn't real either"

[Home Guard]

Nozzer, what are you pointing out in your picture- I am not sure I understand? Thanks,

Terry

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Home Guard

Nozzer, what are you pointing out in your picture- I am not sure I understand? Thanks,

Terry

There is a well known and much discussed (in other threads) series of MGC fakes with a die flaw across the crown. The flaw manifests itself as notches or a line across the central vertical support about 2/3’s of the way up as highlighted here by the red arrows on this WM fake.

The 3 most common MGC series repros are:

1. Crown with the wide gap between the pearls and central cross recently discussed here: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...90&postcount=2
2. Line flaw in the crown as per above
3. Fake with the large tall crown similar to the earlier MGC badges e.g. https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...68&postcount=7

These are all discussed in other threads on numerous occasions if you search Machine Gun Corps or Motor Machine Gun Corps etc.

Originally Posted by Staffsyeoman

My thanks too, to Nozzer; for vindication. The times I have told people that the original MMG badges - as the Motor Machine Gun Service, a precursor to the MGC, should have - to put it prosaically "big, tall crown + "fat" guns" and been howled at by people who have bought duds at high cost based on a bad copy standard MGC badge are countless.

Next episode; "No, that Royal Naval Division MGC badge isn't real either"

Indeed 99.99% of all RND MGC badges seen are fake. The factory brazed ones in my belief are totally wrong with them being made under local conditions.

However there are two badges shown on the forum which I believe to be genuine. One is in Paddy’s album another is shown in a thread by member TRT. Both exhibit all the characteristics I would expect to see in such a badge. Alan O recently posted a link to a badge shown on BBC website with provenance, however it has been chromed and the thumbnail is rather small.

[Home Guard]

Thanks Luke, very helpful, and now I understand. I no longer collect MGC, but am curious if any or mine are good. I run and check mine every time something new pops up.

Terry

[Dave67]

After Lukes fantastic advice i'm 50-50 on this but leaning towards original. I'm trying to learn difference on fakes and original. Lukes advice is helping lots