PTI Badge - Is it RAF, Army or Navy

[Doodles]

I have been having the the following conversation on line.
Who is right, who is wrong, or are we both correct or wrong ?

I have what I believe is a 1923-49 RAF PTI - Physical Training instructor badge.

Conversation:

"This badge is not RAF PTI. It is Royal Navy as it depicts hands holding clubs hence RN PTS’s nick name ‘ club swingers’


Hello,
Thank you for your email.
This is quite interesting and confusing then.

See the British Badge Forum
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/ro...badge-1923-49/

Also, I have the Book: "Badges & Insignia of the British Armed Force. Compiled by A & C Black. Section composed : The Flying Services by John Tanner, Director of the Royal Air Force Museum , page 263, confirming issued from 1923

I have noted, there are one or two dealers referring to it as Army, None refer to it a Navy.

Please can you reference your findings.



My reference in my Dad being an RAF PTI for 38 years and myself being one for 37 years.
Naval PTI’s are referred to by other Naval trades as Club swingers due to the fact that as there was little room on ships for PT the clubs were used in their sessions.
My dad , myself and all other RAF PTI’s have never known us to wear the Arm and Club badge



May I ask the assistance of the forum in identifying this badge, along with any reference I can use.

Freddy

[leigh kitchen]

It's RAF, I'll check one ref I have to hand

Edit: page 17 of "The Formation Sign issue 270".
Crossed swords with crown and eagle in centre, red silk on khaki ground (described in the 1918 Air Ministry Order on dress) replaced by the badge you show in brass in 1923. Later made in cloth.
In 1949 the original design was readopted.

I think I have the brass badge in two sizes.

[gb64]

RAF as far as I was aware ??

Gerard

[Doodles]

Hello Guys,
Thank you for your feedback so far.
Any hard proof.
Also could it have been issued to any of the other forces. I note a British Military Badge dealer selling one as "Army" ?!?
Freddy

[dragon166]

The badge is definitely for the RAF. It was introduced in 1923 and continued in use until replaced in 1949. It came in two sizes and was worn on the right arm. In the WWII an economy version was made in cloth. Please see the attachments for the range of badges used from 1918 to the present.
The Royal Naval badges are all embroidered in gold wire, red and blue cotton dependent on the uniform worn.
The dealer you saw advertising this badge is incorrect in his attribution. The Army has and still does use crossed swords as their PTI badge.
Dave

[leigh kitchen]

I forgot to mention, "The Formation Sign", issue 270 shows a photo of the brass badge being worn by RAF.

[Doodles]

Thank you very much guys.
Your knowledge and resources are 1st class.
I very much appreciate your assistance.
Freddy

[Postwarden]

The photo which appeared in The Formation Sign.

Jon

[Doodles]

Hello Jon,
Great photo. Thank you.
I will certainly use this as evidence too.
Rgds,
Freddy