Ethics

[Peter Brydon]

There have been a lot of threads here about items being misdescribed on E bay.

There is currently a thread on The Great War Forum where someone is asking for identification of a badge which he is about to sell on E bay. He wants to be able put the correct regiment on the listing.

After some though I am wondering about the ethics of using sites like this and the GMF for that type query. I am sure we all like to help fellow collectors with unidentifed items in their collections or with family items that are a mystery,but isnt the above just using peoples goodwill for commercial gain ?

I look forward to hearing what other people think.

P.B.

[Luke H]

That's a good point P.B

I think that I'm of the opinion that if I can help someone especially with something as trivial as putting a regiment's (etc) name to a badge then I will. It's a bit like giving directions if you can you help because you know when you need assistance you'd like a helping hand from someone in the know.

The great thing about this forum is that we can all share and swap information instead of being at a total loss on a topic. The fact that someone wants information to aid them selling their family badge is I agree sad but that's their choice, they could just have easily not mentioned the ebay auction part in that thread and the fact they did and have asked for info seems to indicate they are an honest individual who has a conscience and doesn't wish to mis-describe an item on ebay and possibly trick less experienced collectors which is refreshing in the light of the hoards of unscrupulous ebay dealers out there.

Cheers,

Luke

[Alan O]

As Luke says better they ask than not. Anyway if you have a problem with the ethics of helping then don't help. However if you tell them that it is a copy and they still try and sell it as original, then I feel you could be justifiably agrieved.

Alan

PB and Luke - I don't quite see how we - as individuals or as a Forum - can sit in judgement on those Forum members who trade. I trade and do so openly. I don't do it for a living as I am retired but I enjoy doing it. I had a stand at the Britannia Hotel Militaria Fair on Sunday last and had a good day. I have cultivated an extensive list of clients - I take trouble to locate items they want and I don't sting them in price although in many cases I could if I chose to do so. There is a dealer in all (or most) of us whether we buy and sell or exchange items, often leaning on the other party for something we want - I must say that I have seen them all - including the pious ones who wouldn't dream of accepting cash for something ! My personal view of the situation is to let sleeping dogs lie. There are many traders on this Forum and without them (and their acquired knowledge) what use would the Forum be ? Regards to all. David

[guest_000]

Interesting question but what would we do develop a means test one would take before submitting a question carry on gents doing the fine job that is being done and have a great day

[davec2]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

There have been a lot of threads here about items being misdescribed on E bay.

There is currently a thread on The Great War Forum where someone is asking for identification of a badge which he is about to sell on E bay. He wants to be able put the correct regiment on the listing.

After some though I am wondering about the ethics of using sites like this and the GMF for that type query. I am sure we all like to help fellow collectors with unidentifed items in their collections or with family items that are a mystery,but isnt the above just using peoples goodwill for commercial gain ?

I look forward to hearing what other people think.

P.B.

Hello gentlemen,
I bet one or two people expected me to enter into this discussion, the fact that a person is asking for info before listing an item, is music to my ears. I for one have been conned by several dealers and could have done with the knowledge before bidding on certain badges.
Taking into consideration, the fact that a lot of individuals ask for advice before bidding on the badge, IMO, what is the difference, I ask for advice before and after buying a badge, surely it is exactly the same, someone needs advice, if you know the answer, why not share, it seems natural to me but I am a slow learner.....................aren't I Luke ?????
Incidently, talking of collectors who trade, I have had dealings with David Douglas and was delighted at all aspects of the transaction and I'm waiting to do it again, thanks David for being a collector who will help others, that's my piece said.
Regards,
Dave.

[Sonofacqms]

This forum is an advice centre, we give advice, good or bad and that's our perogative, but I know what Peter means, on two occasions I have been asked my advice and been ripped off.

The first was when a dealer had a large collection of glengarries and the like he hoped to buy, having been asked to give my opinion which I gave freely, my request was when or if he bought the badges, could I buy one which was to a Regiment with family connections. When I next saw him, he told me he had let another collector who I also have known for years have the lot!

The second was over 30 years ago, when the landlord of my local asked me if I would go and sort out some stuff one his customers had got. When I saw this guy he showed me a load of Nazi items, not being an expert on Nazi badges, but having collected badges for a good while, it was easy to see this lot were genuine, I put the medals in the presentation boxes and generally showed him what the badges were, when he asked me the usual question, I gave him a price for the lot and he said they came with other stuff and really did not cost him anything. He did not put me a pint behind the bar or even offer me a cup of tea when I was looking at the stuff, He may have thanked me, I can't remember.

My idea is if you feel like putting the record straight do so, but don't expect anything for your trouble and you won't be disappointed . . !

[Jibba Jabba]

Actually I welcome it. If people come here with an item that they clearly state they want to sell whats to stop anyone on the forum buying it before it hits eBay? Its beneficial for our own collections and its saves the seller ebay fees.

HOWEVER thats ia assuming they are genuine..........

What I do not like is dealers pretending to be innocent members of the public appearing out of no where on forums with huge collections of rare material that they say they bought yesterday when in reality they have assembled it over the course of 30 years. Ive seen that happen in regards Waterloo medals on another forum it really wasnt very amusing at all.

I was talking about this with Dave this morning that if you ever feel that in regards helping someone it is very one way and for your time your recieving very little in return simply stop helping them. Yesterday I gave a dealer 40 copied pages of research pricing thousands of pounds worth of his stock only to be told the item that he was holding for me had been stolen on the Sunday. I just dont believe the man and so it would appear that I`m going to have withdraw my services in regards research.

[Cardiffbloke]

Silly old me but thats what i thought a forum was for..... The swapping of information!? Am i missing something? I buy and sell and ALWAYS seek clarification of something if I'm not sure, especially when buying. If selling i always say if the badge is genuine so that people can bid with confidence. So; if i have something i am not 100% sure of i also seek another's take on it.... I cannot see for the life of me what could be construed as unethical about that!

[davec2]

Sonofacqms and JJ have had a couple of disappointmenting instances in the past but I wonder how many people they have helped in that time, the negativity has only highlighted the situaution.
I have only been collecting for a few years, three at the most, I have spent thousands on rubbish, I wish I had met people ( albeit electronically ), like Malcolm, Keith, Luke and more recently David and a couple of others, a year or two earlier.
One has only to look at ' my albums ' to see how small my collection is, or compare it to others to see how ordinary it is but I know that probably 99% are genuine, that is down to advice and/or help from others and it has been proven that even some ' experts ' still need to take advice, a lot of collectors need help from other members, please don't try and kill that attitude.
Regards.
Dave.

[Jibba Jabba]

This is a popular topic. A member here on another forum raised a point that he was helping a lot of people to recieve comments such as 'thanks' and 'have a virtual beer'. I dont mean arm chair expertise of answering threads on forums, I mean spending hours at the national archives doing look ups.

Its never happened here, but sometimes with some people I often feel like I`d be better treated if I was just an unknown punter. My point being letting everyone know, you know something can cause people to be supsicious of you. In one case I was in a situation where one collector sold some medals cheaper than the price I offered to him because he thought I might know something about them he did not!

At the moment I`m in a catch 22 situation like that with nearly all my local dealers, where exactly is the point in me helping them if they arent going to sell me anything? I visit dealers to buy not to do their homework for them. Yes it is my own fault I got myself into this situation you think your doing favours but in reality you damaging relationships. I dont expect favours or pints in return but what i dont expect is to be treated worse than someone unknown to the dealer. Thats my point.

[davec2]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

This is a popular topic. A member here on another forum raised a point that he was helping a lot of people to recieve comments such as 'thanks' and 'have a virtual beer'. I dont mean arm chair expertise of answering threads on forums, I mean spending hours at the national archives doing look ups.

Its never happened here, but sometimes with some people I often feel like I`d be better treated if I was just an unknown punter. My point being letting everyone know, you know something can cause people to be supsicious of you. In one case I was in a situation where one collector sold some medals cheaper than the price I offered to him because he thought I might know something about them he did not!

Hi JJ,
I do see your point, but this business/hobby is no different to any other pursuit, there will always be the odd ' D-Head ', can I ask you out-right, how many people do you think you have helped, over the same years that you have also been messed about ?????
It's like the old fashioned habit of holding a door open for a lady/woman/female etc, most of the time you get a smile and a thankyou but occasionally you get a withering look and you feel as though you shouldn't have done it, there is always a down side.
I think that Malcom ( joachim ), has helped me more than any other person over the past eighteen months but I'm not going to go all the way to his house to buy him a pint ( well I am, actually but that's just a coincidence ), all I can do normally, is say thanks.
Please keep on offering your advice, it's needed by someone
All the best.
Dave

[Jibba Jabba]

Since I have been online and active on four militaria forums since 2000 I am convinced Ive helped hundreds of people.....the majority I admit through arm chair expertise. When I left one of these forums it was amazing to see that from the number of people I had helped in over 2000 posts only one person had the decency to email me and wish me luck for the future, that was a man who had done the biggest favour to me in the hobby. I think that says a lot about people who collect militaria.

The thing is when you start doing people favours 'like you say' in any pursuit in life many often become complacent with your favours and expecting. You start getting numerous phone calls and the day will come when you just dont want to pick the phone up anymore because you know your being taken for a ride. When you start ignoring the phone the best of it is these people cannot see the error of their ways and blame you, like your the ignorant one!

Malcom is the kind of chap who doesnt expect anything in return but when he went out his way for me at Watford I made sure he had enough money to buy a pint. If I did meet Malcom I would buy him a pint just as I would anyone who I know through this forum because you never know when they might be able to help you.

If you meet the kind and the honest treasure them, dont beat on them.

[boots and saddles]

There is a lot of talk here about trading. I thought trading meant giving up an item that you didn't need for one (or more) that you did need. but it looks like trading for dollars or pounds is the norm. That gentlemen is being a dealer. Nothing wrong with that I suppose,nothing wrong with asking for info. either. Ray

[Adam H]

I think we're getting slightly off topic, but an interesting discussion nevertheless.

I take exception to individuals that come on here (or any other forum) simply for the purpose of identifying and/or getting a valuation on an item, only to throw it on ebay the next day with an enhanced description and price.

These people are successful parasites, and are usually easily spotted in time. However, like most here I tend to give the benefit of the doubt initially. If it becomes an obvious pattern then I just tend to ignore their posts and requests for information.

I'm only too happy to help out another collector, and have indeed had my favours returned on numerous occasions...but my time is too valuable to spend it helping somebody else increase their profit margins, when they give nothing back to the forum in the way of information, help or participation.

-Adam