Unrecorded Commonwealth War Grave

[gurkharifles]

Whilst on a visit to one of "my" cemeteries in Long Ashton, doing a routine inspection of the three recorded war graves that are there; I noticed this impressive private memorial to James Harold Abernethy - Died 30 June 1915 Aged 14. I found out that he was serving as a RN Cadet at the Royal Naval College Osborne on the Isle of Wight when he died of illness (spotted fever) - which I believe was another term for meningitis. James was not one of the three recorded war graves in the cemetery but it occurred to me that he might be entitled to a war grave status - given his service and date of death. So I've sent the information I have to the CWGC who will check it for accuracy and determine whether he is indeed entitled to a war grave. It may take some time but if he does than he will be afforded the protection and care of the Commonwealth War Grave Commission in perpetuity. They won't raise a CWGC headstone, as the existing one is in very good condition and his name is still clearly legible.
There's an organisation called "In from the cold" - http://infromthecold.org/ - which works to identify these "missed" graves around the world and they've been very helpful as well.

[Mike_2817]

It may well be that his family at the time opted for a private headstone.

We have private headstone here in Harrogate for a WW1 VC which turns out that he is in fact buried in France in a CWGC cemetery.. !

[Alan O]

A friend of mine lives in a Wiltshire village with a private headstone for an officer who was wounded in France but died in UK in a military hospital. Yet his name is on the Menin gate! he assumes that the wealthy family were able to have the body taken out of the military burial system for a family burial and that the CWGC assumed there was no body so put his name on Menin Gate.

[gurkharifles]

I've come across a number of private memorials where there is a name of a member of the family killed in the war added to the headstone - it doesn't mean the actual body is in the grave - indeed it was quite common if there was no known grave for the family to add the name - so that there was a place of local commemoration for the family to pay their respects. Sometimes you'll even find a name added to a memorial in an English churchyard even where this is a grave in a "foreign field" - for the same reasons. Tim

[mike_vee]

What would happen if the body/remains of a soldier remembered on the Menin Gate was later discovered and identified ?

I assume he would be buried in the nearest War Graves Cemetery or , if it was their family's wishes , repatriated home and buried in their local cemetary.

Would this show on the CWGC records and would their name remain on the Menin Gate or be removed ?

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[gurkharifles]

Hi Mike - as far as I'm aware the body would be buried in France/Belgium and there wouldn't be an option to repatriate it. I'm sure your aware they are still finding bodies on the battlefields to this day, and when they do great efforts are made to identify the individual - they can usually identify the Regt through buttons, badges etc - and very occasionally through DNA supplied by relatives they can actually give the grave a name.

[mike_vee]

Thanks , I remembered something I had posted in an earlier thread regarding the EAST AFRICA MEMORIAL :

Since the erection of the memorial and engraving of the dedicatory panels the burial places of 188 casualties have since been discovered and they are now correctly commemorated by headstone at the graves.

I guess it is possible that some of 'the fallen' are commemorated in two places , on a war memorial and later with a CWCG headstone.

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[gurkharifles]

I thought you'd be interested to see the reply I got from the "In from the cold" project team on my enquiry about my "unrecorded grave" - So far all of the evidence we have is looking very positive that it is indeed a war grave, however the process in confirming it is a lot more drawn out than I had expected:

Currently, cases are taking two years though naval cases are coming through a bit quicker. If he is accepted, then the grave verification process will commence which can take another couple of years.
I have set our grave team on to the case to obtain the burial register which is the only acceptable evidence that he is buried there (headstones are certainly not evidence).
Recent RN cases have taken between a year and six months so we may be in luck. If he is accepted, he will be commemorated temporarily in the United Kingdom Book of Remembrance until the grave verification can take place. Once verified, the commemoration will be moved to the cemetery. Graves with PMs tend to be quicker as no legal permissions have to be obtained to erect a Commission stone.
I’ll let you know when we hear back. There are no updates in between. The case simply wends it way along the conveyor belt! However, it is now on the right desk at CWGC and is entering the system today. Of course, CWGC is not the approving authority as that will be NHB (Naval Historical Board). As I said, they can be quite quick depending on their workload. If he had been a soldier, you would have been looking at two years – current army cases being approved were submitted in May 2019. There are about 1700 cases in the queue as we speak.

[Khyber]

I remember reading that General Dyer of Jallianwala Baug infamy spent his later years and died in the village of Long Ashton. Is his grave there as well? Just curious..

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Khyber

I remember reading that General Dyer of Jallianwala Baug infamy spent his later years and died in the village of Long Ashton. Is his grave there as well? Just curious..

He was cremated at Golders Green Crematorium.

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