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  #241  
Old 24-03-21, 07:00 PM
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Yep, as usual, may thanks Mike

cheers Tim
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  #242  
Old 25-03-21, 05:56 AM
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I've seen a fair few weird and wonderful ways to attach badges: stickpins that have a spent .22 cartridge filled with rubber jammed on to the end; safety pins lead-soldered on to badges; holes drilled in nice old badges (sigh....) and a ring and chain attached....

Methods only limited by a person's inventiveness...or cunning!
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  #243  
Old 25-03-21, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipper View Post
Nice DumDum, you always deliver with unusual pieces! And I know I owe you an email....

Picked up this last week off ebay (thanks CharlieDog), a nice and hard to find "V" issue with a rubbery disk I've not seen before.

Cheers, Tim
Wot a rubbery badge you have! But is it "lovely" (c.f. descriptions from eBay)?
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  #244  
Old 25-03-21, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
Be careful Frank , they are addictive !


I started out with one basic official 1915 badge but then 'had' to get the 1914 and 1916 badges.

Then discovered there was an "enrollment" badge (War Munitions Volunteer) that was was issued to workers waiting for placement in factories so 'had' to get that one.

Next was to get the enamelled versions of the 1915 and "enrollment" badges.

After that it was to get a nickle/silver 1915 badge and a slightly different 1916 badge (rounded corners).

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...p?albumid=4155

And I have hardly even scratched the surface of the numerous variations of these badges.


.
Grrr - darn you for showing these. Guess what I will be looking for on my (future) travels.

Chris
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  #245  
Old 25-03-21, 03:45 PM
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Finally but finally managed to get hold of the Nickel / Nickel plated 1915 badge manufactured by Woolley & Co Ltd - Birmingham in absolutely cracking condition. I have been looking for so long. As you say, there are so many different examples. I would love to get hold of a ‘fire gilt’ example.....missed out on one by my usual dithering. We live and learn.
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  #246  
Old 25-03-21, 04:06 PM
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Congrats CD, looking forward to seeing it in the album

OK: Warranted Fire Gilt.... Anyone have an inkling as to why the middle one has "Fire" over-stamped with "Best"?

Cheers, Tim
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  #247  
Old 25-03-21, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charliedog012012 View Post
Finally but finally managed to get hold of the Nickel / Nickel plated 1915 badge manufactured by Woolley & Co Ltd - Birmingham in absolutely cracking condition.

Well done , what series is it ?

Going on info in an old thread Wooley & Co made badges for K/T/X series.

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  #248  
Old 25-03-21, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipper View Post
OK: Warranted Fire Gilt.... Anyone have an inkling as to why the middle one has "Fire" over-stamped with "Best"?

Cheers, Tim
That has puzzled me since I first saw a reference in a 2017 post !
It seems to have been done on only one series of badge and by one manufacturer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley View Post
I believe it is your ‘Q’ series Thomas Fattorni badge that has “Best” overstamped across the word “Fire”, which does seem to be something that is common in these, though the higher numbers, still by Fattorni, don’t have anything along the bottom. Mind, although I can’t make it out clearly, on yours “Best” seems to be stamped quite high up?

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  #249  
Old 25-03-21, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
Well done , what series is it ?

Going on info in an old thread Wooley & Co made badges for K/T/X series.

.
Hi Mike,
It is an X series. A very nice badge indeed.
Cheers
James
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  #250  
Old 25-03-21, 08:15 PM
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Correct Mike, and the only maker (I think?) to punch the numbers on the badge itself

As for the "best" you are also right I think, only ever seen them on that issuer.

cheers, Tim




Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
Well done , what series is it ?

Going on info in an old thread Wooley & Co made badges for K/T/X series.

.
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  #251  
Old 25-03-21, 11:25 PM
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Default 1915 variants

Hi

Thought I'd take the opportunity to post these two again. The nickel-plated version is standard(ish!) but the enamel and gilded version?

I suspect that the "fire gilt" possibly refers to the process involving mercury but maybe another member can provide more info on this.

Mercury gilding was widely practised and I have an old jeweller's manual (c. 1885) that has hand-written recipes at the back that use chemicals that would give the H & S dept. absolute nightmares.

Lots of references to arsenic, cyanide, mercury, etc. OK, these are still used today but possibly treated less like a new form of after shave as they might have been back then.....
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  #252  
Old 26-03-21, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipper View Post
As for the "best" you are also right I think, only ever seen them on that issuer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
I suspect that the "fire gilt" possibly refers to the process involving mercury
Based on 'Ticker's' posts and your comments I have a "theory" which may be completely wrong !

Fattorini made four series of the badge yet only one had the word fire 'overstamped' with best. This would indicate a short term problem at a specific time.

As posted , "fire gilding" requires that mercury be volatilized to drive off the mercury and leave the gold behind on the surface, it is extremely dangerous.

So could there have been a problem with mercury supplies , purity , safety , deaths ?

Q : Was there any safety certifications/licencing of manufacturers ? Could/would a licence for a certain process be suspended if there was a major incident ?

Theory

Fattorini produced a batch of badges (they already had 'front' die from K series) but when it comes to the gilding process their is a problem.

Rather than lose the contract they use one of the alternate 'gilding' techniques (cold gilding/electro plating) but have to 'overstamp' as the items are not 'fire gilt'.

'Ticker' implies that this was done on "lower number" badges and that later ones were not 'marked' as either fire or best gilt. It would be easier/quicker for them to make a new "rear" die than restamp any subsequent batches.

Q: Were later T and X series badges unmarked or was the 'fire gilt' process started up again ?


N.B - I have no evidence to back this up , so if anyone has any other 'theories' please post them.


.
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  #253  
Old 26-03-21, 09:35 AM
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Hi Mike

I like your ideas and think that there's some good logical reasoning behind it. I'd more or less concluded that the "fire gilt" process and "best gilt" were different.

I would have thought that, with a war going one, whether something was "fire/ best gilt" would have been a mere detail...

Maybe they were worried about the Board of Trade taking them to task! Could also be that the contract specified that a certain process had to be used.

Interesting that my nickel plated badge carries the "fire gilt" backstamp.

Any comments on the enameled badge?

I'm sure that these nickeled/ enameled badges had some function to indicate seniority or status (foreman/ overlooker- an old mill term, I believe) if we but knew.

The theoretical difference between the enameled WMV and the plain one are a case in point.
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  #254  
Old 26-03-21, 09:46 AM
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Default Phosphorus Works medal, 1918

Hi all

Try this one on for size: you work for a few years years poisoning yourself with phosphorus and they give you this medal as a "thank you".....

Think "match girls" and certainly don't read up about their maladies before eating.

Don't know if the ribbon is correct but it would fit in with the theme.

Comments welcome.
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  #255  
Old 26-03-21, 10:48 AM
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A nice, interesting little medal.
Reminds me, my great grandmother worked at a match factory in London, I don't know if that was cWWI. I don't know if she was "production line" or office staff.
Got a photo somewhere of staff, date not known and no uniforms or insignia shown.
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