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  #1  
Old 27-12-09, 06:55 AM
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Default Which cap badge for FSSF maroon beret?

I am trying to solve a bit of a mystery - perhaps you guys can help me.

My wife's grandfather (who passed away 19 years ago) was a Canadian who served with the FSSF.

I recently aquired, from his widow, a maroon beret - C-broad arrow marked and dated 1944, Dorothea Hats, Ltd. Unfortunately, the beret is missing its cap badge.

I am thinking he was part of the 2nd Canadian Parachute Battalion, which would later be renamed the 1st Canadian Special Service Battalion and integrated into the FSSF. The beret is dated 1944, at which time he was already serving with the FSSF in Italy.

I am trying to determine which badge would have been worn on the cap -the Canadian Parachute Corps badge, or the crossed arrows FSSF cap badge.

Just a note - he did not join a Canadian Parachute regiment after the FSSF disbanded (after the FSSF disbanded, he joined the Perth Regiment).

It was my understanding that the FSSF members wore US uniforms, but I have seen pictures of FSSF members in Canadian battle dress with the FSSF sleeve patch and with the maroon beret with the cross-arrows FSSF badge on it.


I guess I am trying to determine two things:
1. Would this beret have been worn as part of his FSSF uniform?
2. Which cap badge would have been worn with it?

Added: If it helps, the holes for the pins on the badge are almost exactly 3/4 inch apart. The holes are definitely pin holes and are too small for lugs to fit through.

Thanks.

Last edited by ledfut; 27-12-09 at 03:46 PM.
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  #2  
Old 27-12-09, 01:23 PM
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boots and saddles boots and saddles is offline
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It is my understanding that the FSSF did not wear a cap badge, at least the or's, but Bill A can give you a better answer on that, The Perth badge would be easier. I think 3/4 '' is too close together for crossed arrows anyway. But, I am sure Bill will answer. Ray
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  #3  
Old 27-12-09, 03:04 PM
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I found this picture in the book First Special Service Force 1942-1944 by Brett Werner.

The caption for the picture reads 1st Lt, 1st Cdn Special Service Btn, January 1945

The FSSF was disbanded on Dec. 5th, 1944.

Did the 1st Canadian Special Service Battalion continue for a while after the First Special Service Force was disbanded? Was the uniform pictured (Canadian battledress with FSSF insignia and maroon beret) worn post-disbandment in early 1945, before the members went to other units?
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  #4  
Old 27-12-09, 03:26 PM
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Here is a picture from Library and Archives Canada showing the Canadian FSSF members wearing Canadian uniforms with maroon berets. Some of them have the crossed-arrows cap badge, some have no badge.

My research indicates that the First Special Service Force was disbanded in Villeneuve-Loubet on Dec. 5th, 1944. This picture suggests the 1st Canadian Special Service Battalion was disbanded on January 9th, 1945. Perhaps this is the uniform worn by the 1st Canadian Special Service Battalion for the short time after the FSSF was disbanded in Dec. 1944 until the 1st Canadian Special Service Battalion was itself disbanded in early 1945.

Did the 1st Canadian Special Service Battalion in fact still exist on its own for a very short period after the FSSF was disbanded?

Title: Major-General E.G. Weeks, Major-General in charge of Administration, talking with personnel of No.1 Canadian Special Service Battalion, which is being disbanded, Aldershot, England, 9 January 1945.
Location: Aldershot, England
Date: January 9, 1945
Photographer: Richer, Lieut. Charles H.
Mikan Number: 3587655
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File Type: jpg a206723-v6.jpg (50.7 KB, 82 views)
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  #5  
Old 27-12-09, 03:43 PM
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Another picture showing the beret with crossed-arrows FSSF cap badge, this time from Feb. 1st 1945.

It looks to me like this uniform combination might have been something worn by the members of the 1st Canadian Special Service Battalion once they were back in England in late 1944/early1945, before they went off to other units. It is my understanding that the Canadians, as part of the FSSF, wore US uniforms and caps.

Can any of you confirm this? Did any of the Canadian FSSF members ever actually wear the maroon beret/Canadian battledress while in the FSSF before its disbandment Dec. 5th, 1944? Or was this uniform combination only worn for a short time by the 1st Canadian Special Service Battalion after the disbandment of the FSSF?

Title: Officers awaiting repatriation to Canada, No.17 Canadian General Hospital, Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps (R.C.A.M.C.), Crowthorne, England, 1 February 1945. (L-R): Lieutenant Fred Carey, Governor General's Foot Guards; Lieutenant David Johnson, First Special Service Force; Captain B.J. Kruger, a Canloan officer serving with the Royal Army Ordnance Corps (R.A.O.C.).

Location: Crowthorne, England
Date: February 1, 1945
Photographer: Smith, Jack H.
Mikan Number: 3574089
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  #6  
Old 27-12-09, 04:53 PM
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Early in 2010 I will be publishing "Crimson Spearhead" a new book on the FSSF by Ken Joyce, the autor of "Into the Maelstrom" which has become the primary reference on the 1st Cdn Para Bn.
E-mai me at clive@servicepub.com if you wish to be advised of the publication of this book, or go to my web-site (www.servicepub.com) and join my mailing list.

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  #7  
Old 27-12-09, 09:31 PM
Canadian Badger Canadian Badger is offline
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There is a FSSF uniform on display in the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa and it has the crossed arrows badge on a maroon beret.
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  #8  
Old 28-12-09, 12:09 AM
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This is a good book on the FSSF



FSSF.jpg
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  #9  
Old 28-12-09, 12:17 AM
edstorey edstorey is offline
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Default Your Maroon Beret

Don't be concerned that the beret is dated 1944, that is good, for if he were issued it after his 1SSF service then you want items that are dated earlier, not later.

Whatever you do, do not go poking additional holes in your beret.

Do the holes correspond with the pin distance on US Parachute Wings?

Take with a gain of salt whatever you see on display in just about any museum, due to human error and misinterpretation of artefacts, there can be series accuracy problems with what is on display. Likewise with artists drawings in books, be suspecious of those as well. Good period WWII images are certainly one of the best references, although make sure you consult as many images as possible.
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Old 28-12-09, 12:42 AM
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I completely agree with what Ed said about Museum's and potential for inaccuracies in their displays.

Although I am not very knowledgeable with respect to FSSF (although I am sure when I purchase Crimson Spearhead from you Clive I might be better acquainted with the material), I have pics from both the Canadian War Museum (CWM) and Petawawa (Pet) of their displays for FSSF. Again, I am not very knowledgeable with FSSF...so I would be curious to see how well these Museum displays portray an accurate depiction of FSSF.

This post has the 2 pics Canadian Badger referred to in his post.

Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FSSF Beret C.W.M..jpg (50.4 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg FSSF Uniform C.W.M..jpg (55.4 KB, 98 views)

Last edited by chaudiere1944; 28-12-09 at 12:59 AM.
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  #11  
Old 28-12-09, 12:45 AM
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Here are 6 pictures from the Petawawa Musuem display for FSSF.

My apologies for not rotating the pics.

Mike
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File Type: jpg FSSF Canadian B.D. Pet..jpg (54.6 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg FSSF Canadian B.D. Pet2..jpg (64.5 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg FSSF Canadian B.D. 2 Pet..jpg (50.9 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg FSSF U.S. Uniform Pet..jpg (59.3 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg FSSF U.S. Uniform Pet. 2.jpg (59.7 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg FSSF U.S. Uniform Pet. 3.jpg (68.6 KB, 49 views)
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  #12  
Old 28-12-09, 11:13 AM
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nice uniforms but the oval for the metal wing is missing but other than that the uniforms look great i have got the US version but not the canadian


peter

Last edited by peter616; 28-12-09 at 11:23 AM.
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  #13  
Old 28-12-09, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudiere1944 View Post
My apologies for not rotating the pics.

Mike
Well, that's just unacceptable.... I threw my neck out trying to twist my head to view the photos closer

Thanks for the photos. Nice to see a BD blouse badged to the FSSF.
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  #14  
Old 28-12-09, 06:48 PM
sapper 83 sapper 83 is offline
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Default FSSF

The oval was taken down early in the forces begining because they were not an airborne unit only jump qualified.
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  #15  
Old 30-12-09, 10:02 PM
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I see that there is a red patch behind the cap badge on the beret. Do you know what material this is made of? Dimensions? It looks to be felt.
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File Type: jpg FSSF%20Beret%20C_W_M_.jpg (50.4 KB, 42 views)
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