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  #1  
Old 15-03-09, 09:43 AM
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Question 144 Bn The RAC cap badges

Hello everyone,
I am looking for a picture or information about the cap badges worn by the 144 Bn the RAC (former 8th Bn the East Lancashire Regt converted) from 1942 to 1945? Any information welcom. J-F
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  #2  
Old 15-03-09, 09:57 AM
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This regiment, like several other ones converted to RAC, kept his original cap badge instead of adopting the RAC one on the RAC black beret. I don't know if 8th battalion had a special cap badge, but I've attached a picture of the East Lancashire one.
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File Type: jpg East Lancashire Regt.JPG (29.3 KB, 105 views)

Last edited by L&BH; 15-03-09 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 15-03-09, 07:38 PM
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LBHY,
Thanks for reply, in fact I am not sure they wore the East Lancashire Regt cap badge when they came in North West Europe. I know few infantry Bn converted in RAC wore a cap badge in connection with their former units sometimes in white metal but not all. On 144 RAC graves in Normandy, it is the 2nd pattern RAC badge which is carved in the stone...J-F

Last edited by Alan O; 24-06-09 at 11:58 AM.
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  #4  
Old 15-03-09, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon View Post
LBHY,
Thanks for reply, in fact I am not sure they wore the East Lancashire Regt cap badge when they came in North West Europe. F
I confirm the info I gave you. I took it from Bouchery's book which deals with the British Soldier in Normandy.

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Originally Posted by rubicon View Post
I know few infantry Bn converted in RAC wore a cap badge in connection with their former units sometimes in white metal but not all. On 144 RAC graves in Normandy, it is the 2nd pattern RAC badge which is carved in the stone...J-F
13 infantry battalions were transferred to RAC in early 44 among which 8 retained their regiment cap badge and refused to wear the RAC one. One should beware about the badges carved in the stone as it is sometimes not 100% the one of the regiment of the fallen. I've seen Lothians soldiers definitively transferred to the Fifes and with the Lothians badge carved for instance. I have even seen inear Caen an infantry officer's grave with the Artists Rifles badge carved!
There are two badges for the East Lancashire: brass and W/M. Don't forget that the East lancashire regiment had 7 battalions serving during WWII. Also remember the King's own Lancaster regiment where infantry battalions in Normandy wore the brass one and the RAC converted wore the w/m version.

Maybe should you ask the regiment's museum about that, they'll definitely know: qlrmuseum@btconnect.com
Cheers
Phil

PS: will be in Normandy for Easter's holidays during 10 days. Can you tell me where men of the 144th are buried, I shall go on their graves.
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File Type: jpg EAst Lancashire wm.JPG (11.9 KB, 39 views)

Last edited by L&BH; 15-03-09 at 08:41 PM.
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  #5  
Old 15-03-09, 10:48 PM
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I have a 162nd RAC which has the Royal West Kent and Invicta scrolls polished completely smooth.
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  #6  
Old 16-03-09, 11:25 AM
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Is there anything that makes it a RAC variant? Presumably it is identical to the normal wm RWK but with considerable wear.

Alan
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Old 16-03-09, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Is there anything that makes it a RAC variant? Presumably it is identical to the normal wm RWK but with considerable wear.

Alan
It was bought as an RAC variant from Bosleys. The smoothing down of the scrolls looks as if it's been done mechanically with the same sort of finish you see on a 4th Northants badge and no wear at all to the horse.
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Old 16-03-09, 07:51 PM
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Hello Phil, (Are you like me a frog?)
Thanks for reply, unfortunatly I don't take the books wrote by M. Bouchery as a good reference. In my opinion there are too many errors and essential informations missing to be THE REFERENCE. For instance most of the infantry battalions converted in RAC Battalions took place in 1941 and 1942 and not in 1944 as M. Bouchery states. In particular the 8th Bn The East Lancashire Regt which was converted in 1941. Early they wore the cap badge of their former regiment and in 1945 when the battalion was converted in RTR (4 RTR) they wore the RTR cap badge. But in 1944 I don't know...
About the King's Own Regiment only the former 5th Inf. Bn converted in 107 RAC Bn in January 1942 fought in Normandy. As you told they wore in 1944 a King's Own Regt white metal cap badge. (Their first cap badge pattern was chromed and probably made in unit). You'll find 144 RAC graves at Banneville la Campagne, Trooper Joseph Ryan 144 RAC, from Caen take the road to Rouen but not the highway, the CWGC cemetery is juste before Sannerville. Also Trooper V. Hull at Bayeux CWGC cemetery. J-F

Last edited by Alan O; 24-06-09 at 12:01 PM.
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  #9  
Old 16-03-09, 08:32 PM
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Hi J-F,

I know Banneville-La-Campagne cemetery quite well as you'll also find there the graves of all the 1st Lothians & Border Yeomanry fallen in Normandy, so will seize the opportunity next time to go on Trooper Joseph Ryan's grave.

I fully agree with you on Bouchery's book, there are some mistakes (colours of the Coloured FS caps, Lothians cap badge backing which was not worn, 23rd Hussars cap badge missing backing, etc...) and it is certainly not THE reference but as far as the infantry Regts. converted to RAC ones were concerned, it was the only source I had to refer to when I read your lines.
Moreover, the list he gives is the one of the already converted regiments by 1944 & D-Day and as far as Normandy & NW Europe is concerned.

Maybe should we foresee a Frog Meeting by the end of April in Normandy?
Cheers
Phil
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  #10  
Old 17-03-09, 04:34 PM
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Default 144 Bn The RAC cap badges

The memorial room at the tank museum Bovington shows all the cap badges worn by war time RAC regiments formed from infantry regiments. the 144th RAC is shown as wearing the East Lancs cap badge KK2223.
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  #11  
Old 17-03-09, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboorman View Post
The memorial room at the tank museum Bovington shows all the cap badges worn by war time RAC regiments formed from infantry regiments. the 144th RAC is shown as wearing the East Lancs cap badge KK2223.
A good clue, thanks! J-F
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  #12  
Old 23-06-09, 09:05 PM
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This is a white metal kings own badge with a brass slider. It is neither plated or chromed. It is the first one I have ever seen that is not a Franklin Mint one.
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File Type: jpg P6250001.JPG (26.3 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg P6250002.JPG (25.2 KB, 77 views)

Last edited by Alan O; 25-06-09 at 05:47 PM.
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  #13  
Old 26-06-09, 09:40 PM
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Hi, according to their history they had four titles and three cap badges. They were wearing RAC badges 22nd April 1944 and had RTR badges delivered for their ceremony on 1st March 1945 on becoming 4th RTR. The East Lancs band happened to be in the area at the time so played at the conversion. They were originally 80th Holding Battalion, hence four titles. Mike
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  #14  
Old 27-06-09, 06:09 AM
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Thanks. What do you think of the one shown above?
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Old 27-06-09, 02:42 PM
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Hi, mine is the same construction. i.e. a white metal title added to the lion, which I assume is a collar badge, by two lugs. With the brass version I have, the title is just attached to the feet by brass weld. My lion is slightly different to yours. Unfortunately I'm going away for a couple of days so can't send a pic. will do next week if you want. I've never met anyone who can say what type the RAC reg. wore. Mike.

Last edited by fearnaught; 27-06-09 at 02:48 PM.
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