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  #1  
Old 27-11-22, 04:57 PM
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Default Your opinions please on this recently acquired "Duck and Bastard" badge

Good evening gents,

Please share your opinion on the attached images of this recently acquired "Liverpool Pals" badge.
I think it's genuine but I like to have a confirmation of the more knowledgeable here.

Although I'm not a WW1 badge collector I agree with a prominent here on the forum that "everyone should have one of these beautiful badges".

Currently I'm even reading Graham Maddocks book on the history of the "Pals" which is very impressive.

Regards from The Netherlands,
Marinus

LPALS-BADGE-01-1.jpgLPALS-BADGE-01-2.jpgLPALS-BADGE-01-4.pngLPALS-BADGE-01-3.jpg

Last edited by marinus; 27-11-22 at 04:58 PM. Reason: changed "some" to "a"
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  #2  
Old 27-11-22, 05:00 PM
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Perfect example.

regards
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  #3  
Old 27-11-22, 06:00 PM
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A textbook example in mint condition. Even I tickled it a little on the bay.

Whilst not cheap you got a great deal on it.
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  #4  
Old 28-11-22, 06:04 PM
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Default Your opinions please on this recently acquired "Duck and Bastard" badge

Simon, Luke,

Thank you very much for your quick responses!

Regards, Marinus
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  #5  
Old 28-11-22, 06:10 PM
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Just out of curiosity why do you call it a duck and bastard badge?

Regards
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  #6  
Old 28-11-22, 07:21 PM
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Duck = Eagle.

Bastard = Child.

Pure assumption on my part. The Public House, the "Eagle & Child" in Huyton on the outskirts of Liverpool was named after Lord Derby's Coat of Arms. The badge itself was depicted in colour on the pub's sign. From the police point of view, it was a very "bad" pub. Long since closed.

Dave.
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  #7  
Old 28-11-22, 08:00 PM
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Thanks Dave,

I have been in the pub. Long story.

regards
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  #8  
Old 28-11-22, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Thanks Dave,

I have been in the pub. Long story.

regards
Simon,

You obviously got out in one piece. Well done!

Dave
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  #9  
Old 29-11-22, 02:13 PM
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There are/ were a number of pubs in the North West called the Eagle and Child.

The hms Liverpool Pals badge is a lovely thing, I bought my first example ( top one in picture ) more than 60 years ago, even before I knew precisely what it was. I have had a number of other examples over the years and the last one I bought arrived in today’s post ( bottom one in photo ) .It was on our favourite on line auction and I put a bid on it at the opening figure and to my complete surprise ( and delight ) I won it.

P.
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  #10  
Old 29-11-22, 03:33 PM
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Default why I call it a "duck and bastard" badge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Just out of curiosity why do you call it a duck and bastard badge?

Regards
Simon,

It's from Graham Maddock's excellent "The Liverpool Pals" book.

"There were in 1914, as there are today, more than a few public houses in the Liverpool area named "The Eagle and Child', whose inn sign bore the Derby crest. Thus the idea began to take root, that the Derby Battalions ought to wear the Eagle and Child of the Derby family."

...

"Certainly the Derby badge was a great mark of distinction for those who wore it, although it was not always referred to with due reverence! It was known, variously as 'Derby's Duck', "The Bird', "The Bird and Bastard', "The Duck and Bastard', 'The Ruptured Duck', "The Constipated Duck', and even worse!"

Regards,
Marinus
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Old 29-11-22, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marinus View Post
Simon,

It's from Graham Maddock's excellent "The Liverpool Pals" book.

"There were in 1914, as there are today, more than a few public houses in the Liverpool area named "The Eagle and Child', whose inn sign bore the Derby crest. Thus the idea began to take root, that the Derby Battalions ought to wear the Eagle and Child of the Derby family."

...

"Certainly the Derby badge was a great mark of distinction for those who wore it, although it was not always referred to with due reverence! It was known, variously as 'Derby's Duck', "The Bird', "The Bird and Bastard', "The Duck and Bastard', 'The Ruptured Duck', "The Constipated Duck', and even worse!"

Regards,
Marinus
Thanks Marinus
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  #12  
Old 30-12-22, 09:33 PM
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(Apart from Simon's nasty names.....


The first silver ones were assayed in Chester, then London.


The Silver ones were presented to the xx by Lord Derby.
They were also presented by a GM badge.


the bronze version was only for officers (ie OSD) - only allowed to wear OSD




as for the other OR badges; (apart from other badges)


I'll describe the OR badges tomorrow.....
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  #13  
Old 31-12-22, 12:56 AM
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Not being from those parts is the bird about to attack the child???

It is a nice badge however.

Terry
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  #14  
Old 31-12-22, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Guard View Post
Not being from those parts is the bird about to attack the child???
Two early theories about the crest :

1. “Those Stanleys once had a very bad ancestor who had an illegitimate child and, like any right thinking Englishman of the time, abandoned the child in an eagle’s nest. The eagle, however, had other thoughts and raised the child as his own, leading to his eventual adoption and reconciliation."

2. "In this version, the supposedly childless and elderly father arranged for the child to be placed in the eagle’s nest and “discovered” by a faithful retainer, allowing him to adopt the child without having to acknowledge paternity."

.
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  #15  
Old 31-12-22, 10:19 AM
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Well, I never knew that! Sounds a good, rational, explanation though.

Dave.
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