British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Other Army Departments and Corps Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 13-06-20, 08:21 PM
Staffsyeoman Staffsyeoman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,129
Default

My thanks too, to Nozzer; for vindication. The times I have told people that the original MMG badges - as the Motor Machine Gun Service, a precursor to the MGC, should have - to put it prosaically "big, tall crown + "fat" guns" and been howled at by people who have bought duds at high cost based on a bad copy standard MGC badge are countless.

Next episode; "No, that Royal Naval Division MGC badge isn't real either"
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 13-06-20, 09:47 PM
Home Guard's Avatar
Home Guard Home Guard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,741
Default

Nozzer, what are you pointing out in your picture- I am not sure I understand? Thanks,

Terry
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 13-06-20, 09:58 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,905
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Guard View Post
Nozzer, what are you pointing out in your picture- I am not sure I understand? Thanks,

Terry
There is a well known and much discussed (in other threads) series of MGC fakes with a die flaw across the crown. The flaw manifests itself as notches or a line across the central vertical support about 2/3’s of the way up as highlighted here by the red arrows on this WM fake.

The 3 most common MGC series repros are:

1. Crown with the wide gap between the pearls and central cross recently discussed here: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...90&postcount=2
2. Line flaw in the crown as per above
3. Fake with the large tall crown similar to the earlier MGC badges e.g. https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...68&postcount=7

These are all discussed in other threads on numerous occasions if you search Machine Gun Corps or Motor Machine Gun Corps etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Staffsyeoman View Post
My thanks too, to Nozzer; for vindication. The times I have told people that the original MMG badges - as the Motor Machine Gun Service, a precursor to the MGC, should have - to put it prosaically "big, tall crown + "fat" guns" and been howled at by people who have bought duds at high cost based on a bad copy standard MGC badge are countless.

Next episode; "No, that Royal Naval Division MGC badge isn't real either"
Indeed 99.99% of all RND MGC badges seen are fake. The factory brazed ones in my belief are totally wrong with them being made under local conditions.

However there are two badges shown on the forum which I believe to be genuine. One is in Paddy’s album another is shown in a thread by member TRT. Both exhibit all the characteristics I would expect to see in such a badge. Alan O recently posted a link to a badge shown on BBC website with provenance, however it has been chromed and the thumbnail is rather small.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CC909672-F757-416B-824D-76897680DBF9.jpg (84.9 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg 1BF59D0D-9988-4E4A-8D1A-68AC0EEC79E8.jpg (81.5 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg A7BF2E65-9905-420B-A1EB-460E64B152E1.jpg (51.2 KB, 23 views)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 13-06-20, 10:14 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,905
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzer View Post
Thanks Luke. I don't suppose you can show one with the curved mark? Always looking for variations
Here you are mate
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BDE0EAE0-2590-4ED9-B8D3-50E0FE669EA0.jpg (115.8 KB, 101 views)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 14-06-20, 01:58 PM
Home Guard's Avatar
Home Guard Home Guard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,741
Default

Just for my own knowledge, I am guessing that the 1st and 3rd in the top row of mine, plus the dug one are good, all others are fakes.

What thoughts re the two collar badges?

Thanks,

Terry
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 14-06-20, 02:12 PM
Home Guard's Avatar
Home Guard Home Guard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,741
Default

Thanks Luke, very helpful, and now I understand. I no longer collect MGC, but am curious if any or mine are good. I run and check mine every time something new pops up.

Terry
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 14-06-20, 05:39 PM
KLR's Avatar
KLR KLR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London
Posts: 3,055
Default

ORs did not wear during the 1st WW - only officers.
BUT 33Bn MGC did provide collar badges for their chaps. I think the Household MG units did too....
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 15-06-20, 06:49 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

So ORs did wear them!


Quote:
Originally Posted by KLR View Post
ORs did not wear during the 1st WW - only officers.
BUT 33Bn MGC did provide collar badges for their chaps. I think the Household MG units did too....
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 15-06-20, 04:28 PM
MH331 MH331 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,181
Default

I'll dig some of my MGC pics out but I am pretty certain that collars were worn during the period of hostilities.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 17-06-20, 07:41 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Guard View Post
Just for my own knowledge, I am guessing that the 1st and 3rd in the top row of mine, plus the dug one are good, all others are fakes.

What thoughts re the two collar badges?

Thanks,

Terry
The NZMG collar badge looks good to me, does it have a Gaunt tag on the back?

Brent
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 17-06-20, 08:46 AM
slick_mick's Avatar
slick_mick slick_mick is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 4,281
Default

Deleted.
__________________
Looking for Australian military books?

Regimental Books - Australian Unit History specialists

Chasing militaria? I recommend:

Militaria Online - Australian Militaria Sales

Last edited by slick_mick; 19-06-20 at 11:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 18-06-20, 07:57 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,431
Default

I would be interested in seeing any pictures of ORs wearing MG collars that predate the following picture which is dated 7 Sept 1916.

The picture taken in France shows members of the Canterbury company of the NZMGC, as can be seen they are wearing the British pattern MGC cap and collar badges, the "NZ' under the machine guns being added later in 1916.

2 nzmg 4.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 18-06-20, 08:25 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

That particular strike has a very distinctive curve.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzer View Post
A genuine Gaunt marked badge for reference.

Again, notice the curve on the base of the crown.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 18-06-20, 01:12 PM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

If your examples are not good, it should not put you off collecting MGC, original badges are very common and were made in considerable numbers, ultimately the Corps was able to recruit for itself and was not reliant on men coming in from other branches, moreover, during the final year, before the armistice, the MG Companies started to become MG Battalions.
The manpower was huge, the problem you will have with the cap badge is the cost, when I started collecting badges as a child an original MGC could had from a local antique shop or stall, with ease, for a couple of quid, there were fakes around but the difference was not really difficult to spot in the way they were made when compared side by side.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Guard View Post
Thanks Luke, very helpful, and now I understand. I no longer collect MGC, but am curious if any or mine are good. I run and check mine every time something new pops up.

Terry
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 19-06-20, 09:59 PM
cbuehler's Avatar
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 3,387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick_mick View Post
I was under the impression collars only were worn by ORs just after the war finished.

Mick
So was I, at least for the British MGC.

CB
__________________
"We seldom learn the true want of what we have till it is discovered that we can have no more." Sam. Johnson
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:04 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.