Northumberland Fusiliers AA - Page 2 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

hagwalther · #16 01-09-10, 10:48 PM

Hi Guys,

Just to put this all into perspective.

With regard to the official and original War Office documentation that I have read I would have no hesitation in obtaining a Royal Northumbrian Fusiliers A/A cap badge for collection.

Granted, I have not found an entry for it in the List of Changes with the exception of its insertion in C 4717 of November 1951 (which was a change of future intent only) and thus I cannot derive any sealed pattern details about this badge. Also, I have not seen any sealed pattern for this badge either the Master or one of the Standard types.

However, taking all other information to hand I have no hesitation in:

a) Stating that this badge was officially authorised for issue at least to a Territorial Army battalion.

b) Stating that this badge was bulk manufactured for issue under War Office contract.

Whether this badge was actually issued or worn I have no official evidence as per 90% of any other A/A badge as such official information is seldom available.

Regards

Chris

Alan O · #17 02-09-10, 08:35 AM

I am at a loss at to David Douglas' rant. There was no moderation on this thread before his unwarrented and childish outburst. What I have written is fact. If you read the various edition's of Maj Edwards' book which were written by the author at the time while in correspodance with the units in question, he shows metal k/c infantry badges throughout the 50s and 60s. It is only in 1967 that he shows q/c a/a versions against the TA regts. Indeed there is a picture of a KOSB card from 1968 on the forum that shows the w/m k/c badge in use with a/a collars. This is all fact therefore not arguable. Add this information to the sealed pattern dates of the mid 60s for many of these badges and this seems irrefutable arguments. OWH a.k.a David Douglas should know better especially as he has been asked to leave the Forum before for ill founded, argumentative and downright rude comments.

Keith Blakeman · #18 02-09-10, 11:01 AM

I never guessed it was him again.

bess55 · #19 04-09-10, 10:08 AM

Hi Gents,
As ever very interesting. I have several of the NF anodised examples - from memory they are GAUNT marked on the slider. Some have most definitely been worn, with classic wear on the shoulder of the slider and general rubbing on the face, so no doubt somebody wore them. They are as I'm sure you are all aware quite easy to obtain on the pen market and are not expensive.

If anyone has any info on the possibilities if not Regular Bns - TA or ACF/CCF, I'd be all ears.

Regards all gents

Bess

matti467 · #20 04-09-10, 02:19 PM

I'm going to put my neck on the line and say that the only units that were able to wear an A/A RNF cap badge on any time line based on the evidence put forward must have been TA and affiliated cadets in much the same way that DLI are found in quantity in A/A and were worn by at least cadets for many years after the regulars were LI.
There, I've done it, neck firmly out, now for the clout on the back of it!!!
Matti

Alan O · #21 04-09-10, 03:25 PM

Not from me. I agree fully.

KLR · #22 04-09-10, 03:43 PM

Similarly, the AA Liverpool Scottish badge Sealed in 1965 was never worn by the TA unit - they didn't like it and when they ceased to exist in 1967 it was worn briefly by cadets though they weren't keen on it either !

Mike · #23 04-09-10, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Some have most definitely been worn, with classic wear on the shoulder of the slider and general rubbing on the face, so no doubt somebody wore them.

one I have is similarly worn. came from a car boot sale many years ago in Northumberland.

ukbrits · #24 04-09-10, 04:52 PM

Hi Guys
Heres another one made by Smith & Wright.
Slightly different die pattern to the J.R Gaunt London one.
Regards
UKbrits

bess55 · #25 04-09-10, 07:39 PM

Mike, exactly as I described, yes. I also have an example made by Firmin London.

There are of course anodised alluminium collar badges that go along with this badge - in two types. If I may quote Colin Churchill from History of British Army Infantry Collar Badge;-

'.......an upright grenade in gilding metal with st George and the dragon within a motto circle in white metal. Worn until 1952/3 when it was replaced by a similar but horizontal grenade. Worn on the No.1 and No.3 dress jackets. Use of these badges ceased in the regular battalions in 1962, but continued in TA units. On 23rd April 1965 the badge in gold and silver anodised was sealed. Pattern No.19702. Made by Messrs. Dowler, it is interesting to note that on the sealed pattern studied, st George and the dragon face right on both examples. A similar grenade, but vertical was worn with the No.2 dress jacket and on the mess waiters livery jacket. c.1963. It is doubtful if these were officially authorised.

Gold and silver anodised grenades with st George and the dragon within a motto circle were sealed 9th October 1956 under reference 54/INF/8779 for wear vertically on No.2 dress soldiers jackets of D company (TA) but whether they were ever worn is not known.

From 1962 - 1968 the men wore Fusilier Brigade pattern vertical collar badges in gold and silver anodised on the service dress jackets'

So, two types in anodised alluminium, one configured as the cap badge and one with the grenade horizontal. It would appear that they do not come in facing pairs either. I dont have any of these in my collection but I have seen them.

All food for thought gentlemen.

Bess

btns · #26 05-09-10, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan O

I am at a loss at to David Douglas' rant. There was no moderation on this thread before his unwarrented and childish outburst. What I have written is fact. If you read the various edition's of Maj Edwards' book which were written by the author at the time while in correspodance with the units in question, he shows metal k/c infantry badges throughout the 50s and 60s. It is only in 1967 that he shows q/c a/a versions against the TA regts. Indeed there is a picture of a KOSB card from 1968 on the forum that shows the w/m k/c badge in use with a/a collars. This is all fact therefore not arguable. Add this information to the sealed pattern dates of the mid 60s for many of these badges and this seems irrefutable arguments. OWH a.k.a David Douglas should know better especially as he has been asked to leave the Forum before for ill founded, argumentative and downright rude comments.

I guess the message that triggered this response is in another thread - here it is:

Touche' Charlie.
Oh, and speaking of "rants"...welcome back to David Douglas(aka OWH), you've been missed ! But, hey, do us all a big favour will you ? Cut out all the personal slander and libel etc., (as an ex lawyer you should know better),and just stick to giving us your vast and invaluable expertise. All the best. J

Mike · #27 05-09-10, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btns

I guess the message that triggered this response is in another thread - here it is:

Touche' Charlie.
Oh, and speaking of "rants"...welcome back to David Douglas(aka OWH), you've been missed ! But, hey, do us all a big favour will you ? Cut out all the personal slander and libel etc., (as an ex lawyer you should know better),and just stick to giving us your vast and invaluable expertise. All the best. J

time stamps are wrong for that.

Mike · #28 05-09-10, 12:54 PM

will clean up this thread at some point so only subject matter remains, so it's intelligible for posterity.

davec2 · #29 05-09-10, 01:06 PM

Five days.........................

That's all, five days I've been on holiday and everything is up in the air again, I would have thought that after the problems I caused by getting personal in a debate ( you lost the forum etc ), it wouldn't happen again.

I'm still angry at what happened but now it's water under the bridge, what happened to the new rules, did we not all read them, no personal attacks etc, time to grow up and move on me thinks ???

Dave.

hagwalther · #30 05-09-10, 09:54 PM

Ripper images Mike!!!

Regards

Chris