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  #61  
Old 15-01-20, 03:48 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
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Pete, Thank you for that very convincing explanation, I’ll go with that! Sounds as if I should be asking you about another button I have. It’s a naval one and I’m hoping that the letters I see are clear enough in the photo. Incidentally, I do not collect naval buttons, but if it comes in a job lot, or intrigues me, I’ll hang on to it. I always hope I can trade them for Artillery buttons. So here in the photo, I see the letters R and A. Very clear under a glass but what do you see?
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  #62  
Old 15-01-20, 05:44 PM
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This is another button that caused confusion for many years!

For a long time it was said that these, and similar buttons with R and A either side of the anchor, were worn by Royal Artillery boats crews at the Shoeburyness Gunnery Range.

This is simply not true.

The discovery of the manufacturers pattern book has confirmed that these buttons were worn by the members of the Royal Albert Yacht Club.

Pete
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  #63  
Old 15-01-20, 11:03 PM
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Great stuff Pete! I felt strongly that it was nothing to do with the R.A. Too much Navy and not enough gunnery depicted. However, can you enlarge on your information? My understanding is that three of these four buttons are Royal Albert, or Royal Albion Yacht Club. The other of course is Royal Artillery Yacht Club. This now poses the question, was there a “Rank” structure on board the Yachts pertaining to uniforms? My three buttons are obviously blackened brass as opposed to my first button (previous post) which is different design and material. Incidentally, note the three different types of maker’s marks wording, all by same company for same unit. Best regards, David J.
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  #64  
Old 16-01-20, 03:04 PM
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Hi David

Firstly, I will forgive you for referring to a civilian yacht club as a 'unit'!

I am primarily a naval button collector with an interest in the Royal Navy and the old imperial navy's of Australia, Canada, India and South Africa. But I have come across a lot of yacht club buttons during the time I have been collecting.

And although I used to own a boat I was never a member of a yacht club - far too swanky for me!

One of the problems with yacht club buttons is that the clubs are continually altering the designs of their buttons, which is why manufacturers pattern books are so useful.

Re the variation in the types of buttons, with specific reference to your Royal Albert Yacht Club buttons. I have seen buttons for this club in a variety of materials - black horn, gilt, brass, and with a rope edging to the button and without a rope edging. And it is the same story with many other yacht clubs.

I was once told the reason for some of the variations - and apparently it all goes back to the invention of the blazer in the 1830s!

At that time the captain of the frigate H.M.S. Blazer dressed his gig's crew in blue-and-white-striped brass-buttoned jackets. This was the origin of the jacket we now know as the blazer. They became very popular with Victorian yacht clubs, with the crews of the larger yachts being dressed in blazers when ashore or in harbour. However, the owners of the yachts did not want to be associated by dress with their crews, so they tended to wear dark-blue reefer jackets with black buttons bearing the design of their yacht club.

So began a trend that can still be seen today in the more upmarket yacht clubs. To quote my source, "the visiting plebs, particularly those not owning a boat, will appear with brass-buttoned blazers while the posh, vessel-owning members wear reefers with black buttons sporting the club motif: the best made of horn".

These days few yacht clubs still have this distinction in buttons. It is all very strange as it's a complete reversal of what was found in the Navy where the officers had the shiny buttons and the ratings had the black horn ones!

I don't know if this was the case in all yacht clubs or not but it was certainly once a very popular 'trend'.

You also made reference to the Royal Albion Yact Club. According to my records that button was actually worn by the Royal Anglesey Yacht Club.

You also referred to the three different versions of the same manufacturers name on the back of the buttons you have. As you are probably aware, one of the best ways of dating a button is by the name the individual manufacturers use on the back of the button. This can change as the company changes their address, amalgamates with another company or a son joins the firm, etc. So different versions of the company name are used at different times - therefore enabling the button to be approximately dated.

I'll check my records and see what I can tell you about your buttons and get back to you.

I hope this has been of some help!

Pete
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  #65  
Old 16-01-20, 03:43 PM
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David

I've had a look at the details for Pitt & Co. The company was founded at 50, St. Martins Lane, London WC in 1875. It moved to 31, Maddox Street, London W in 1895.

The button on the left and the one in the centre were made after 1895 when the company moved to Maddox Street. The same backmark was used until 1973 when the company was bought by JR Gaunt.

The button on the right is older and was made between 1875-1894 when the company was based at St. Martins Lane.

Pete
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  #66  
Old 16-01-20, 04:47 PM
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Great thread full of useful information.

Marc
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  #67  
Old 16-01-20, 06:40 PM
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The Royal Yacht Squadron is one of the few yacht clubs with different buttons for members and crew. The 3 anchor buttons are for crew members.
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  #68  
Old 16-01-20, 07:19 PM
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I expect nothing else from the Royal Yacht Squadron! If anyone was going to continue with distinctions with between crew and members it would be them.

The RYS still feels that it is bestowing a great honour on the Royal Navy by letting them use THEIR ensign!

Pete

Last edited by Guzzman; 16-01-20 at 07:25 PM.
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  #69  
Old 16-01-20, 11:23 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
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Pete, That was a very informative and useful post which included the historical origin of the “Blazer”. I have more of those buttons,(large & small) with NO makers mark. Hopefully, one day I might find someone who’s into Yacht buttons, and might trade any Artillery buttons they may have. Your additional post of the time frame for “Pitt’s” buttons was also of good value. Thank you for all the research and time spent in replying to my posts. Best regards David J.
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  #70  
Old 23-01-20, 11:55 PM
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Same thread, different day! Would any member care to speculate on this 18mm dia. Button? Computer would not accept Nepaul at first, now it shows as spelling mistake! Ghurka connection? Anyone? Regards, David J.
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  #71  
Old 24-01-20, 09:15 AM
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Found on Worthpoint.

Nepaul Artillery original Medium Button.
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  #72  
Old 24-01-20, 11:30 AM
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I rather think the gun on a platform button/s could well apply to the floating gun barges employed during Battle of Copenhagen in 1807, and as such worn by the units involved. The ordnance is not resting on ground but on a platform, ie barge in this case??


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  #73  
Old 24-01-20, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artynut View Post
Computer would not accept Nepaul at first, now it shows as spelling mistake!
Other buttons with same spelling.

A Nepalese Enigma
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