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  #1  
Old 25-01-21, 12:15 AM
lettman lettman is offline
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Default 60th Bn enquiry

The following enquiry was passed on to me, but it's way outside my realm of expertise. I got permission from the enquirer to post it here, in the hope that a BBF member might have some answers:

I was wondering if you or anyone in the Society could help me with a problem I am having with the Colours of the 60th Battalion. The Shrine of Remembrance in Melbourne has three 60th Battalion Colours Laid Up in the Crypt. One is the “Brunswick – Carlton Regiment” Regimental Colour while the other two, according to the Shrine, are the “Heidleberg” King’s and Regimental Colours. I checked on Trove and found in the Melbourne Argus, 7th of June 1915, that a set of "Brunswick – Carlton" King’s and Regimental Colours were presented and consecrated on the 6th of June 1915. I believe the funds for these were raised by the citizens of Brunswick. I presumed the Regimental Colour is the one at the Shrine. But when I looked closely at the article in the Argus, it mentioned that the Regimental Colour bore the words “South Africa” on it. The Colour at the Shrine doesn’t show that, maybe it's faded. Also the 60th “Heidleberg” Regimental Colour doesn’t show a “South Africa” Theatre Honour, which I don’t believe they were entitled to although I always found it strange given they descended from the 5th AIR. It is my understanding that the 60th "Brunswick - Carlton" Infantry and the 60th "Heidelberg" have the same lineage, so why would the "Brunswick – Carlton" Inf be entitled to the South Africa Insignia.
Any information you could provide regarding the 60th Battalion Colours would be gratefully appreciated. Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.
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Old 26-01-21, 01:53 AM
kingsley kingsley is offline
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In the 1960s we had a badge researcher and author named Alfred Festburg who worked for or with the MGO branch of the Australian Army in Melbourne.
Mr Festburg only knew what the army records told him, not what the army actually wore. He was the only person I have ever met capable of denying the evidence of his own eyes: if you showed him an actual badge, he would say that the army never wore it.
His major work was a well researched book on Australian Army Lineage which showed all the origins and re-naming of regiments over the years. It does not mention regimental Colours.
He also wrote the first illustrated book we ever had on Australian badges, the ones actually current in 1967. I got a mention in this when he sent an official army photographer to my place, but he could not be told that the book contained a lot of mistakes (e.g. the Survey Corps did NOT have a large KC hat badge, (he just enlarged the photo of a collar badge) and he added a miniature King's crown to invent a two-piece KC Signal Corps hat badge, etc.
Attached a scan of the 1912-18 badge forerunners of the Heidelburg regiment (Princes Hill and Brunswick Carlton) with blue not red as worn later by the 1930-42 regiment. Maybe this might help answer the question.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 60thInf.jpg (74.0 KB, 16 views)
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  #3  
Old 26-01-21, 09:11 AM
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Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
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Interesting story about the 60th.

I would be interested in a more precise dating of the several designations. I believe that apart from "Prinses Hill Infantry Regiment" and "Brunswick Carlton Infantry Regiment, there was also "Jika Jika Infantry Regiment", but I am unsure about the dates (years) of changes before and after the Great War.

I ask this to improve on what I have in Victoria.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 26-01-21, 10:59 PM
kingsley kingsley is offline
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I will dig out the appropriate page from the lineage book. The reorganisations of the army were:
1. 1903 when the six state armies were merged and re-numbered to form the new Australian army after Federation
2. 1912 when we adopted the 1909 report by Lord Kitchener making military service compulsory for junior cadets (ages 12 to 15), Senior Cadets (ages 15 to 18) and Militia (ages 18-25).
Australia was numbered into 93 military areas and most of them were given a brass number to be worn on the front of a slouch hat with a plain rising sun on the side. I have a photo of my father wearing number 32 but I have never been able to get the badge.
Some numbers were in reserve and a badge was never struck. The government did not mind if individual regiments had distinctive badges struck at their own expense. There are around 30 Infantry out of 93, mainly from Victoria, quite rare, and six or eight Light Horse for the 29 regiments, even rarer. In some cases, earlier badges with no number continued to be worn.
3. 1920s: Compulsion faded away after the war and a new part-time voluntary militia force was organised with 61 re-numbered Infantry battalions and 26 re-numbered Light Horse. Nearly all of these had their own badges.
When I started collecting, I was somewhat confused when I saw the same Ballarat Regiment badge with number 7 (1903-12), 70 (1912-18) and 8 (1930-42).
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Old 27-01-21, 09:20 AM
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Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
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Thanks for answering. I am aware of the main events like federation, Kitchener, etc. But many details considering each and every regiment are lacking. I know about Festburg's, but not easy to get one here in the Netherlands. Thus I thought that because the 60th was the subject of this thread and because I know that it had that many different names, I may be could get at least more detailed information about the 60th from people attending this thread.

I do no know if you have looked into that link I provided, but I hope it gives you an idea about what I have and what is missing (or simply wrong).

More of these using the link in my signature below (or e.g. The Battalions between the World Wars)
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