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  #1  
Old 07-10-19, 02:54 PM
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Luke H Luke H is offline
 
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Default A Question for Neibelungen

I have these two RE badges which are unquestionably from the same die. The only difference being the central cyphers EviiiR v’s GviR.

My question is how is this done? I assume the die has been ‘re-hobbed’ however there’s no traces whatsoever of attachment points for the preceding cypher on the GviR badge.

Be fascinated to know how this is accomplished. Both badges also exhibit similar slider types and both are of yellow brass. The GviR badge is somewhat a thicker strike from the reverse detail but no doubt the same maker.
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  #2  
Old 08-10-19, 10:48 AM
Neibelungen Neibelungen is offline
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Interesting question.

Generally a badge die is ground out to roughly the design required before being hobbed. Basically you have to push the metal somewhere so removing as much as possible beforehand is preferable .
A lot will depend on production numbers so making an entirely new die isn't unlikely. It's easy to underestimate the skill of hand die makers as they would be doing this day in and day out, so making a near identical revision isn't difficult. You take all your layout measures off the first.

The centres may have been seperate punches applied afterwards, hence they often tend to show a very untidy style of join that looks like a soldering fillet.

Another aspect oftem overlooked can be the use of copy lathes (essentially a giant pantograph, commonly used in coining) working from plaster models three or four times life size. These can serve to quickly grind out the badge recess before hobbing them or even produce dies directly.
Much of the die makers skills comes from the polishing fine cutting applied afterwards from cleaning up in the post hardening phase. A lot is done with small stone slips and emery powder with a wooden peg.
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  #3  
Old 08-10-19, 12:44 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
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Sticking my neck out here but certain things I see in the photo’s shown lead me to believe that the badges are cast, not die struck! Also, they do not appear to me to be the same altered pattern, as opposed to the “unquestionably same die”. Hope this doesn’t get me thrown off the forum!
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  #4  
Old 08-10-19, 12:48 PM
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I agree they are different dies, one has a round buckle the other is oval.

Rob
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  #5  
Old 08-10-19, 01:28 PM
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Have to say look different dies to me also

Gerard
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  #6  
Old 08-10-19, 04:23 PM
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Totally off the point, what are Neibelungen?

Wiki gives Nibelungen or Niebelungen.

I am minded of a security trick in the Cold War early computer days, to choose a password deliberately off-beat, Mine was umbreller!
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  #7  
Old 08-10-19, 07:40 PM
Neibelungen Neibelungen is offline
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It goes back to an old joke... Nibelung were dwarves in norse and early germanic mythology, but later the Bergundian tribes who forged Sigfried's ring that makes it's way into Wagner's Ring cycle.

I spent a lot of my time working away in a dank dark cave.. (read cold workshop) making treasures.. and being 6' 5" I made the perfect dwarf.

It just stuck as a username.
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Old 08-10-19, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neibelungen View Post
It goes back to an old joke... Nibelung were dwarves in norse and early germanic mythology, but later the Bergundian tribes who forged Sigfried's ring that makes it's way into Wagner's Ring cycle.

I spent a lot of my time working away in a dank dark cave.. (read cold workshop) making treasures.. and being 6' 5" I made the perfect dwarf.

It just stuck as a username.
By which token I need a Giant's handle!
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