British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum  

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Royal Navy and Royal Marines

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15-05-19, 12:37 PM
Irv's Avatar
Irv Irv is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Freshwater IOW
Posts: 600
Default RM cap badges opinion please

Hi Guy's,

Can you please give your opinions on these badges please.

Regards
Irv
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image1.jpg (71.2 KB, 127 views)
File Type: jpg image2.jpg (67.2 KB, 96 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15-05-19, 01:50 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4,852
Default

First and Last are fake, and middle one home made.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15-05-19, 02:18 PM
Ray6930's Avatar
Ray6930 Ray6930 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 438
Default The good, the bad & the ugly

Hi Irv
Not sure on the first one as I don’t have my reference books to hand to check the pattern of the globe and laurel, certainly done more neatly than a lot of the copies of that badge.
The middle one is an ugly rendition of I not what
Third one is a copy in my opinion. Should have voiding between globe and laurel, normally the originals have a strengthening piece behind the ship (hand made in the field by the looks of ones I have seen)
Proper RMLC (at a price I can afford!) still eludes me
Ray
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15-05-19, 05:15 PM
Irv's Avatar
Irv Irv is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Freshwater IOW
Posts: 600
Default

Cheers guys.
I thought the first one might have a chance. I can see that the second has the additional but looks like it might have been a RMA that has lost its flaming bomb. The third is a fake.
I'll keep looking.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15-05-19, 07:53 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 1,255
Default

Irv,

Bosley’s liked the ‘world record’ price they got for this genuine one so much so that they show it off permanently on their site https://www.bosleys.co.uk/en-GB/mili...tions/page_362

With fees it works out just south of £1,400.

Probably a rarer badge than the fabled double scroll Nelly!

Luke
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16-05-19, 07:09 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,615
Default

The first one could be right as the RMEs who wore then initially used a collar and a separate grenade so a locally conversion or one piece is not impossible. The design was worn.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16-05-19, 09:46 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West
Posts: 1,760
Default

Looking at the wreath tips, some one has gone to the trouble of cutting the crown off the middle one - a strange conversion, question is who did it?
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17-05-19, 11:07 AM
Paddy's Avatar
Paddy Paddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portsmouth Area
Posts: 839
Default

Irv

Not in a position to give a fuller answer as I am away until Sunday but the first one looks good to me from the pictures, 2 has been made up but who is to say when or why and 3 is wrong. Will post pics when I can

Paddy
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 17-05-19, 03:30 PM
Sunray9's Avatar
Sunray9 Sunray9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 511
Default

The first one appears to be that of the Royal Marine Artillery very short lived badge, introduced in 1922 and prior to the amalgamation of the RMA and RMLI in June 1923.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19-05-19, 03:15 PM
1664 1664 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56
Default

Irv,
First one is what Sunray said -nothing wrong with it and quite scarce.

Second one, top and bottom both genuine, but both from other badges and impossible to know why someone bothered. The pattern of the lyre is helpful, most of school of RNSM badges you see are referred to as coming form stores but they are re-strikes. This lyre in yours is the same pattern as the genuine ones and I'd be very interested to know if you can traces of a lug on the reverse.

The third - common re-strike.

Yours
John
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 19-05-19, 03:17 PM
1664 1664 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
Looking at the wreath tips, some one has gone to the trouble of cutting the crown off the middle one - a strange conversion, question is who did it?
In 1936 they switched from a large lyre to a smaller one, but this is a lot of trouble when usually they kept wearing the old pattern until new pattern issued.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19-05-19, 07:47 PM
Paddy's Avatar
Paddy Paddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portsmouth Area
Posts: 839
Default

Irv

A few pics added which may be of interest. The RMA badge has a very distinctive globe and laurel which is not like any used on any other RM badge. I have a couple of the globe and laurels where the grenade has been broken off. There were 2 different patterns of grenade as well one for ORs and the other for SNCOs. The SNCOs version and the OR's version did not have the same pattern globe and laurel.

The RMLC badge is widely copied but the genuine ones have several areas of voiding and there is a strengthening piece on the back.

Paddy
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 19-05-19, 08:04 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 1,255
Default

Stunning Paddy! Didn’t know you had a RMLC. Beautiful example of a lovely and rare badge.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20-05-19, 08:53 AM
Chipper's Avatar
Chipper Chipper is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: France
Posts: 727
Default

Thanks Paddy, lovely to see all of these, and especially that superb RMLC

cheers, Tim
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20-05-19, 03:27 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West
Posts: 1,760
Default

1664 - Thanks for that - so possibly large lyre removed (rather than crown) - and small lyre added.
I see John Rawlinson has The Royal Naval School of Music covered in his book on pages 283-285.

(Personal Distinctions: 350 Years of Royal Marines Uniforms and Insignia - for those interested it was Special Publication 41 of the Royal Marines Historical Society - see link https://shop.nmrn.org.uk/collections...orical-society)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:36 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.