White Metal JR Gaunt London QC Parachute Regiment on eBay

[Harry Katyn]

I know there has been much discussion on the Forum regarding the correct attributes for genuine white metal KC Parachute Regt beret badges – one of which being that they should have lugs and not sliders but I cannot recall what the outcome of the various threads was regarding the fittings for genuine white metal QC badge should be.

This particular example sold recently on eBay for relatively humble money but attracted my attention because of the maker’s mark on the slider having just re-read Laurence Archer’s 1980 ‘The Badge Collectors Guide to Restrikes’. In his pamphlet Archer only makes mention of the JR Gaunt London mark running up the slider on a “range of re-issues of badges of the 1950’s” and that in the latter half of the 1970’s the same mark appeared on a number of short-lived and scarce badges that had re-appeared on the market in quantity. The 1970’s examples sliders had a “small brazed join where the slider normally bent at a right angle before the joint with the back of the badge”, apparently to disguise that the badges were of recent manufacture which would have been obvious if they had of been stamped with the then current JR Gaunt B’Ham mark. (Archer states that this braze would normally require a powerful magnifying glass to reveal it so it does not appear to be obvious in the attached photo.)

I have various anodised aluminium examples with some maker’s marks running both up and down the sliders however I only have a Gaunt London example with the mark running down the slider.

Given that the general consensus of opinions in previous threads that it would be pointless to produce restrike QC Para Regt beret badges has anyone come across similar maker’s marks on genuine white metal or anodised examples? Does the fact that the example photographed appears to be cast and not struck, something I have not previously encountered with white metal QC Para Regt badges, indicate anything significant regarding it’s authenticity?

[JerryBB]

your pictures are a bit small but the makers mark looks huge

[Alan O]

I am afraid but Archer was wrong about the mark direction. You do get very common badges which were not faked with them going in both directions.

Gaunt London are faked but you cannot condemn a badge based on the direction of the font.

I am doubtful about the replaced slider claim as well.

[Harry Katyn]

Apologies for the quality of the photos - they are direct downloads from eBay. (Unfortunately I forgot to get the hyperlink as well.) I have attached a Gaunt London mark on a anodised Para Regt badge I have for comparison - which looks about the same size.

I still consider myself a novice when it comes to restikes etc and I suppose that research has come a long way since 1980 but even I had doubts over some of Archer's statements in his pamphlet.

Many thanks for the input to date.

Has anyone any thoughts on the cast as opposed to struck construction?

[tcrown]

I’m no expert on these badges but I just wanted to remind a few facts that could provide a bit of context.
QC Parachute Regiment badges were introduced in Aug 1955 struck on base metals and equipped with lugs. In the same year started to appear berets with a backing pocket for the badge. So, it is conceivable that Para badge makers could have added a slider as a variant for the private purchase market.

The ordnance issue-type anodized or ‘staybrite’ badge was adopted in the early 60s. These badges were produced either with lugs or slider. They were immediately disliked as looking cheap, too light, prone to be lost and poorly manufactured. A lot of paras were trying to purchase the old pattern metal base badges but these were not longer manufactured and became scarce (source: letter by HQ 16 Para Bde Dec 1967, reproduced by O. Lock). This is probably why the old badges reappeared in the 70s for the private market.
I would imagine Gaunt was involved in this business along with other makers. I don’t have a clue as to the type of marking that was used or if these were cast or struck. In my view, all these badges were not ordnance approved but just tolerated because of the ‘staybrite’ badges deficiencies which were apparently corrected after.

I have added the only example I have in my collection if anyone can provide an opinion.

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by Harry Katyn

Apologies for the quality of the photos - they are direct downloads from eBay. (Unfortunately I forgot to get the hyperlink as well.) I have attached a Gaunt London mark on a anodised Para Regt badge I have for comparison - which looks about the same size.

I still consider myself a novice when it comes to restikes etc and I suppose that research has come a long way since 1980 but even I had doubts over some of Archer's statements in his pamphlet.

Many thanks for the input to date.

Has anyone any thoughts on the cast as opposed to struck construction?

this is a staybrite badge, no problem with the markings on this

do you have the link to the sale, or access to better pics?

[Frank Kelley]

From the photographs I would think an original badge that was also struck with a voided crown, although, tudor crown badges were certainly still being worn beyond 1955.

Originally Posted by tcrown

I’m no expert on these badges but I just wanted to remind a few facts that could provide a bit of context.
QC Parachute Regiment badges were introduced in Aug 1955 struck on base metals and equipped with lugs. In the same year started to appear berets with a backing pocket for the badge. So, it is conceivable that Para badge makers could have added a slider as a variant for the private purchase market.

The ordnance issue-type anodized or ‘staybrite’ badge was adopted in the early 60s. These badges were produced either with lugs or slider. They were immediately disliked as looking cheap, too light, prone to be lost and poorly manufactured. A lot of paras were trying to purchase the old pattern metal base badges but these were not longer manufactured and became scarce (source: letter by HQ 16 Para Bde Dec 1967, reproduced by O. Lock). This is probably why the old badges reappeared in the 70s for the private market.
I would imagine Gaunt was involved in this business along with other makers. I don’t have a clue as to the type of marking that was used or if these were cast or struck. In my view, all these badges were not ordnance approved but just tolerated because of the ‘staybrite’ badges deficiencies which were apparently corrected after.

I have added the only example I have in my collection if anyone can provide an opinion.

[tcrown]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

From the photographs I would think an original badge that was also struck with a voided crown, although, tudor crown badges were certainly still being worn beyond 1955.

Thanks Frank.

Given the appetite for old style metal badges in the 60s, I'm wondering if all these QC badges with sliders would not qualified for restrikes. Faking these badges would not be relevant in this instance.

As for the KC badges being worn beyond 1955, I'm a bit skeptical that it was common practice considering how attentive to details the Para RHQ was at the time as evidenced in the letter mentioned in my previous post

[Luke H]

KC Para badges with identical 1950s large font Gaunt London marks are well know. Such examples are found converted from loops evident from scars but others are the original fixing.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=88869

These QC examples would be a logical continuation and are certainly not common marked. What’s more many are die cast or semi-die cast construction and appear to have more quality than the masses of others seen.

Whilst it’s true one does have to be careful with the large font mark personally I have no problem with them and regard them, as also the KC, as genuine.

I’d suggest if calling the QC version into question because of the mark then this would also cast doubt on the similar KC slidered badges plus must also naturally extend to some looped Gaunt die KC Para badges if your supposition is they’ve been restruck by Gaunt themselves then large font marked sliders added to some.

Alas I doubt you’d win many fans with such an argument.

I cannot say I recall ever seeing a die stamped WM badge with a voided crown.

[Harry Katyn]

Many thanks for everyone's input and the hyperlinks.

Such a knowledge base continues to show the importance of the forum and that collecting postwar badges is as big a mine field as wartime examples!