Dismounted Yeomanry cap badges in 1918

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

https://www.facebook.com/ww1incolour...999937/?type=3

12th Somerset soldiers wearing both SLI and West Somerset Yeomanry cap badges. It is dated Aug 18 so is at the end of the war.

Another good find Alan. Keep them coming.

Devils advocate, are the smaller oval ones definitely WSY badges and not RAMC? Always find colourised images difficult as by its very nature the photo has been touched up.

It would be good to see the original un-doctored image.

Edit: found it https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205239003

Clearly WSY badges as no crown and different shape can be seen when compared to seated officer’s RAMC collars.

[Alan O]

The RAMC have the red crosses on their arms. Those 2 do not and they have battle patches on their arms as the SLI badged soldiers.

The RAMC have Territorial titles on the shoulders whilst the SLI just have Somerset curved titles.

[Luke H]

Thanks Alan.

This VC winner Sergeant Thomas Caldwell (1894-1969) born 10/02/1894 in Carluke, Lanarkshire appears to be wearing the RSF grenade on the tam. The history states he enlisted in 1915 and served at Gallipoli.

Can someone pull his service record please and see who he joined with?

The Ayrshire Yeo, Lanark Yeo and RSF (albeit not 12th Bn) were all at Gallipoli. If he originally joined one of the Yeos it would suggest the Yeo badges were ditched for the RSF.

http://www.vconline.org.uk/thomas-ca...586139562.html

[nfh249]

I can't categorically say that the East Riding Yeomanry switched to MGC badges on joining the MGC in 1918, but this photo of Herbert Levi, 1601 (later 50387) East Riding Yeomanry and subsequently L/Cpl 160939 MGC shows that they eventually did. It is dated 28th January 1919, confirmed by the presence of the 1914-15 Star ribbon (authorised in 1918). He was disembodied on 11th February 1919 so clearly a 'parting shot' photo.

Cheers,

Neil

[manchesters]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Thanks Alan.

This VC winner Sergeant Thomas Caldwell (1894-1969) born 10/02/1894 in Carluke, Lanarkshire appears to be wearing the RSF grenade on the tam. The history states he enlisted in 1915 and served at Gallipoli.

Can someone pull his service record please and see who he joined with?

The Ayrshire Yeo, Lanark Yeo and RSF (albeit not 12th Bn) were all at Gallipoli. If he originally joined one of the Yeos it would suggest the Yeo badges were ditched for the RSF.

http://www.vconline.org.uk/thomas-ca...586139562.html

Luke,

He was 1st/1st Lanarkshire Yeomanry.

regards

[Luke H]

Thanks very much for confirming Simon.

Thank you Neil, a very interesting photo.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by nfh249

I can't categorically say that the East Riding Yeomanry switched to MGC badges on joining the MGC in 1918, but this photo of Herbert Levi, 1601 (later 50387) East Riding Yeomanry and subsequently L/Cpl 160939 MGC shows that they eventually did. It is dated 28th January 1919, confirmed by the presence of the 1914-15 Star ribbon (authorised in 1918). He was disembodied on 11th February 1919 so clearly a 'parting shot' photo.

Cheers,

Neil

As they merged with the Lincolnshire yeomanry to form the 102 MGC in 1918 there are quite a few references on line to them using the MGC insignia.

A couple of photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/humber...47424790/page2

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

As they merged with the Lincolnshire yeomanry to form the 102 MGC in 1918 there are quite a few references on line to them using the MGC insignia.

A couple of photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/humber...47424790/page2

Thanks again Alan. This photo was on the page so seems they did switch to MGC insignia upon the merger and getting back to Europe sometime presumably after April 1918.

I’d expect the 1/1st Lincs Yeo followed suit.

I’ll update my main post tomorrow. Still have several other updates to do.

[nfh249]

Originally Posted by Alan O

A couple of photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/humber...47424790/page2

Yes, quite a few of those are from my collection! I've been working with David Marchant at the Treasure House for a number of years on the ERY.

Cheers,

Neil

[Alan O]

Neil

Thank you for the work. In light of all of the other examples, it seems likely that there was a re-badging to MGC on merger with the other Yeomanry Regiment.

without a unit photo it is difficult to be sure. The problem with individual portrait photos was that the soldiers often embellished their uniforms for the picture so you see badges and other items in use that were not normally worn.
I can imagine the odd old yeomanry badge being put back on for a portrait photo!

Alan

[Alan O]

There is an interested transcript of a former Lincs Yeoman describing their conversion from Yeomanry to infantry MGC and he relates they even changed the way they wore their puttees to the infantry way of winding.

https://collections.royalarmouries.o...rative-54.html

[nfh249]

Originally Posted by Alan O

There is an interested transcript of a former Lincs Yeoman describing their conversion from Yeomanry to infantry MGC and he relates they even changed the way they wore their puttees to the infantry way of winding.

https://collections.royalarmouries.o...rative-54.html

Thanks Alan. Frank Seeley contributed a similar account in 'With the Linconshire Yeomanry in Egypt and Palestine 1914 - 1918' by J W Wintringham, published by Lincolnshire Life in 1979

Cheers,

Neil

[CAM]

Apologies if this comes over as a ramble.

On the 'lead article' of this thread, for my education, did any Yeomanry Regiment officially retain their own cap badges when they had been re-designated infantry?

I would also suggest (stating the bleeding obvious) that the time between transferring to designated infantry battalions and issuing insignia would undoubtedly leave many (not just those resistant to changing badges) without the new badge - particularly in places like Cairo. I wonder if there was a 'grace' period and if so, how long.

I understand that the official Battalion cap badge was meant to be used especially for those transferred piecemeal, as drafts.

As an aside I read recently an extract, although relating to the front line, "... no one cared what you wore as long as you could fight."

There are photos during the Gulf and other conflicts of tropical and desert uniforms by members of the same unit - plus ça change.

Chris

[Alan O]

Chris

I think that's exactly the point we are making. Where an entire regt was converted to Infantry Bns they often seem to have worn both Yeo and Inf badges alongside each other - no doubt due to the officers still being in the Bn and this seems to have been widely tolerated.

The conversion to cyclists does not seem to have seen a change in badges for the 2/1 and 3/1 Yeo units.

MGC conversion seems to have gone to rebadging.

Where Yeo subunits were reroled/amalgamated/sent a bulk reinforcements then they seem to have been converted to the Infantry cap badge. Although as the AY pic shows earlier they may well have hung on to badge sw here they could get away with it.

[Alan O]

I forgot to say that despite some dealers' claims there was not any converted yeomanry bespoke cap badges made. For example the all brass F&F Yeomanry thain is pre-war and not a post 1916 economy badge worn by the F&F Yeo Bn of the BW.