72nd Btn CEF

[James G]

Bill,

Yes it was the CEFSG site. This link should take you directly to the link

http://www.cefresearch.com/phpBB2/vi...cap+badge+72nd

Regards

James

[James G]

Bill,

In have just read the post again and it says "MAY" have been different suppliers.
It also points out that there are fantasy badges like this as well.

James

[James G]

As promised I have attached the reply I received today from the Curator of the 72nd Canadian Seaforth Highlanders curator, Colin Stevens

"Hi James

Your badge does look OK. That was one style of collar badge worn by the 72nd Battalion C.E.F. which was Seaforth Highlanders of Canada. DO NOT POLISH IT! That is correct colour. They also wore a C over horizontal bar over 72 in brass during WWI. Typical for 1917.

I can't comment on its height at this time as I am at home and do not collect Seaforth stuff to avoid conflict of interest.

We recently received a WWI uniform of a chap wounded in 1917. It has this style of collar badges on it as I recall.

I shall try to remember to have a look. I have just taken over the museum (3rd time at bat as Curator) so have MANY loose ends to sort out.

COLIN STEVENS"

[LLWill]

I am the person that asked the question on the CEFSG about this badge. I have several of these, in two distinct badge colors. By my measurements thay are 47.1mm in height.

[James G]

Larry,

Thanks for posting the pictures. I think this badge is one I will have to put to one side until I find out more in the future. I am finally of the of the opinion that it may be genuine although there will always be a doubt. so it will go in the "authenticity disputed" box for now

Reasons for suspecting it is genuine

1. It looks right. No one has yet thrown doubt on the look of this badge ( lugs, quality of stamping etc) only on the size.

2. If it is believed not to be genuine due to it's size it can't be a restrike it must be a newly created die in a larger size. This is unlikely because a die would cost thousands of pounds to make and therefore the forger would need to produce loads of fakes. There don't seem to be enough 72nd badges of this size around to indicate that this is so.

3. Babin shows two badges for the 72nd. One is the stags head and one is the badge like yours and mine. Babin lists badges not collars. So perhaps this is the badge he was illustrating.

4. Although the curator of the 72nd museum cannot yet say whether 72nd collars or badges were made in this size he hasn't dismissed the idea.


Reasons for believing it is fake.

Well only one reason really and that is based on the fact that at the moment there is no documentation to show that badges or collars of this size were made for the 72nd.

As a British badge collector this is the first Canadian badge I have bought I hope they aren't all as difficult as this one or i'll have a box of disputed badges and nothing to put on the wall.

James

[TRT]

Have we made any progress on this? I ask because two years ago I bought one from Arctic Medals. This dealer has a v good rep and I doubt would be duped or knowingly sell a fantasy badge. Mine is of darkened copper as above and also of the larger dimensions. Same dealer has another listed currently.

I displayed my badges recently and a knowledgable collector immediately dismissed it as fake.

Any comments appreciated.

TRT

[Bill A]

Hi TRT, Could you image the badge? Without casting aspersions, dealers have been known to make errors. More troubling, the age of some repros is now such that they have been around much longer than many collectors and vendors. And their provenance has disappeared into the mists of time, or their myths have gained the stature of truth.

[whizzbang]

There is an article by Hugh King in "The Bulletin of the Military Historical Society" published in 1994 that describes a fantasy 72nd badge which is a maple leaf version that looks exactly like the collar, only larger. I think the OP badge is one of those. The badge appears in Babin and the article notes this as one of the few errors in the book.

I think I kept a copy of the article, I'll have a look. If not, COLIN17 recently bought my complete set of the journal, maybe we can impose on him to look it out

Many CEF collectors consider the larger 72nd maple leaf badge a fake, myself included.

Cheers, Ian.

[TRT]

At work now but will post. Coming to same conclusion I think. Will be too expensive to return to Canada to source but I have a lovely correct example on its Mckenzie tartan backing. Oh well.

TT

[whizzbang]

Here is the article (starts at bottom of second page).

Cheers, Ian.

[Tinto]

Hi All,
Here is my 72nd maple leaf version, measures 38mm high approx., presumably a collar badge.
Cheers, Tinto

[Bill A]

Thanks Ian and Tinto. It is too bad the Hugh King article didn't image the CMGC officer's badge, but I suspect most of us know the one in question.
I need to stress the point I made above. We are now 21 years past the date the article was published and the dissemination of this information needs to be done again and again. Both collectors and dealers tend to develop their expertise from the point that they start the hobby. That tends to exclude information from earlier on.