8th Gurkha rifles Kilmarnock

[Gurkha]

Peter,
I had this discussion with Field Marshal Sir John Chapple and Col Woods both acknowledge experts on all things gurkha and with the museum as well. I dont know what African Regt and neither did they other than it was not gurkha.
The point they made is that there is no evidence photographic or otherwise of it ever being worn by a gurkha unit, and it is to tall for a gurkha Kilmarnock.
I think its possibly a Malay or Singapore unit. Why? All that turn up are as new, all similar dated. Could they have been made for a contract by hobson, but never shipped due to the invasion by the Japanese?
I purchased one of these years ago from Hobson's when they were in Tooley Street, Tower Bridge, under the impression it was connected to the brigade as well. They guy at the time had no idea what unit only they had a lot of them (all unbadged).

Regards
Steve

[fougasse1940]

In "Imperial Sunset, Frontier Soldering in the 20th Century" by James Lunt there is a 1934 photo of a Malay Regiment soldier in drill order wearing what looks very much like the Kilmarnock as seen in this thread.

Rgds,

Thomas.

[peter monahan]

Steve

I hope no offence was given by my query. Sounding wise after the fact, my reaction to the 'Kilmarnock' was that it looked like the very early Gurkha hat - 1860s vintage, - but as I said, its not my field. Certainly if Sir John says its not Gurkha you can take that to the bank!

The Malaya/Singapore theory sounds plausible. God knows some of the stuff the lesser known colonial units got lumbered with would make a sailor blush. The fez, for example, for the RWAFF could arguably have made sense if they had recruited mostly Muslim Hausas, though Hausas did and do not wear them. However, as most recruiting pre-WWII was done on the coasts of the various colonies - pagans and Christians manily -wearing a fez was as ethnically accurate as lederhosen on St Paddy's Day!

Another of the little mysteries which make this hobby so interesting, or infuriating! Perhaps Thomas has the right of it.

Regards,

Peter

[JerryBB]

This has turned out to be more interesting than I first thought and well worth the £23 spent, but probably not such a good deal as it first appeared. Never look a gift horse in the mouth and too good to be true both spring to mind.

Any chance of showing the picture mentioned, Thomas?

Thanks for all the replies,

Jerry

[Gurkha]

No offence taken peter,
this is what makes our hobby so interesting. That what is not written down. It is so frustrating that an item that is dated in living memory can be so vague. My cap is kicking around in the loft so it would be nice to know what unit it is actually from. I dont know if Hobsons still have their records for that period. I'll have to make a few enquiries now!
Its nice to have something to talk about. It gets lonely down here at the bottom of the page.

Regards
Steve

[revdougal]

The "Sonkok" is the Malay form of headdress, and is also worn by the Royal Brunei Armed Forces in dark green; there is also a "civilian" version in that part of the world, which is softer: a bit like a "Nehru" type hat.

[fougasse1940]

"Soldiers of the Malay Regiment in drill order, walking-out dress and field service order, 1934."

Rgds,

Thomas.

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

"Soldiers of the Malay Regiment in drill order, walking-out dress and field service order, 1934."

Rgds,

Thomas.

Hi Thomas,
Thank you very much for posting the pics. It does look very similar and might be the same, whilst the proportions look the same.

Regards,

Jerry

[Gurkha]

Here we go one in colour. The Malay Regt. looks the same as my one. we may have cracked it.

regards
Steve

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Here we go one in colour. The Malay Regt. looks the same as my one. we may have cracked it.

regards
Steve

It certainly looks close, but is the upper section above the piping green on this one? Does your's have buttons fitted as mine does not and has no sign they were ever there, but it does appear to have pre-stamped holes in the chinstrap to allow them to be fitted? I assume that the buttons were fitted at the same time as the badge would have been, the original badge that is.

Great image to see.

Regards,

Jerry

[Gurkha]

I think thats the way the colour has turned out, in the original picture it appears dark blue. Mine and the ones I saw at Hobsons had no buttons or badges, just chin straps fitted. Hobsons only make the headdress. The buttons and badges would have been supplied by another manufacturer and I guess either fitted before dispatch or upon arrival. I remember being issued with berets and badges cap seperately from stores.
Steve

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

I think thats the way the colour has turned out, in the original picture it appears dark blue. Mine and the ones I saw at Hobsons had no buttons or badges, just chin straps fitted. Hobsons only make the headdress. The buttons and badges would have been supplied by another manufacturer and I guess either fitted before dispatch or upon arrival. I remember being issued with berets and badges cap seperately from stores.
Steve

The thread starter is black, not blue, so maybe not the same, what colour is yours?

Also, when would the WD stamp be applied?

Jerry

[Gurkha]

Mine is very dark blue/ almost black as far as I remember. Its been in the loft for the last 10 years. The picture is of a painting so it is possible the colour is not right or as its identical in style could it be another malay unit?. I believe the WD stamps are applied during manufacturer same as all miltary clothing. As it's obviously part of a military contract there must be a record or sealed pattern somewhere. I must go and have a look in the loft and see if there are any contract numbers/codes inside.
Either way I'm now more than happy that it is not gurkha and can go.

regards
Steve

[zob]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

"Soldiers of the Malay Regiment in drill order, walking-out dress and field service order, 1934."

Rgds,

Thomas.

“By George I do believe you’ve got it!” The Malay Regiment badge incidentally on the Kilmarnock cap is referred to in “Edwards” as: Gurkha Hat Badge All Ranks: Within a circle inscribed “Ta’at Stia” (Loyal (and) True) in Jawi characters, a kris and its sarong (scabbard) crossed; above circle an Oriental crown; below the circle a scroll inscribed “Askar Melayu” (The Malay Regiment), also in Jawi characters; supporting the circle on each side, a tiger. In gilded metal for all ranks.

Songkok Badge (Malay national headdress). Officers and Warrant Officers Class I. Within a circle inscribed in Jawi characters in the upper portion “Ta’at Stia” and the lower portion “Askar Melayu”, a kris and its sarong crossed; the whole surrounted by an Oriental crown. In gilt or gilding metal. Ranks below Warrant Officer Class I: As for Gurkha hat.

So not Nepalese or Indian but Malay Gurkhas!

Regards,

Zob.

[fougasse1940]

Glad to have been able to help Zob, and all others.

Rgds, Thomas.