Memorial Bars

[WJ Miller]

Which ribbon does a memorial bar attach to? Does it matter? I realize not all KIA are going to have the same awards, but I would think they all would qualify for the War Medal and CVSM (unless a Zombie?). However, if you were overseas and were awarded an MID both ribbons have devices already?

A friend of mine is restoring a grouping for his uncle who was killed in Holland, He has the standard five; 39-45 star F&G star, Defence, CVSM (clasp) and War Medal (no MID)... I was suggesting putting the memorial bar on the Defence medal as it is in the middle!? yes, no? Perhaps better on the CVSM coupled with the overseas clasp?

There was no memorial cross in this case as the man died single and pre-deceased by his mother.

I was just reading online that the Cdn. Govt. is now issuing memorial bars again (as of January 2009) from surplus WW2 stocks!? Sterling, marked Birks.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-...g.asp?ref=MemB


Bill.

[DavidS]

does this help?

[WJ Miller]

Why yes it does. Thank you masked man.

I suppose I should have just asked YOU over that beer you claim you are going to buy me

Seriously, that does help, as I have never seen one in person and never seen one mounted to the group. I was under the impression they were the width of a single ribbon, not double as that photo shows. Makes perfect sense with the amount of engraving they contain.

Thanks again.

[marway_Jaime]

Hi Bill, for the Birks bar as shown in David's link there is no right or wrong way to display as far as I know. If a frame is being made up why not use it as the 'brass name plate' at the bottom to identify the group. Or you can place it above the medal grouping too. Like I've said no right or wrong just preference.

Look forward to seeing you guys in Calgary.

Bill will you be putting on a display?

Jaime

[Bill A]

My notes are not handy, but working from recollection, the bar was intended to be sewn on the ribbons, centered depending on the number of medals. However, as the Bar was only issued for the medals of casualties, there was little control how they were actually mounted. (The Memorial Cross was not issued with the medals, nor was it ever intended to be worn with the deceased's medals. The Memorial Bar was issued to identify the recipient of the medals, as unlike WW1, the WW2 medals were not named. There seems to be a lot of confusion over these two commemorative medals in Canadian issue.)

[WJ Miller]

It is interesting that the government issued so many memorial bars (technically one for every KIA, some 42,000+) yet so few are ever seen. As I mentioned, before David provided that link, I don't recall ever seeing one in context with the recipient medals!? Yes, memorial crosses were issued separately for mothers and wives but are commonly found mounted with the KIA groupings? (it does make sense to mount them with actual medals, particularly nowadays, when most likely the original recipients of the crosses have passed away. Not a likely piece of jewelry for any descendant, 65 years on, to wear.)

Anyway, thanks again. I realize this thread is off topic to the forum.

Jaime, I look forward to the Calgary show next month and will do my utmost best to encourage David to spend lots of money. I will not be putting on a display as I just have not had any time to really work on organizing my "kangaroo" stuff. I will seriously consider it for next year however.

[DavidS]

God, Bill's going to be cranky and incorrigible until I buy him beer. Jaime, dig up that box of 8th Recce ephemera you keep under your desk and we'll see who gets to laugh best. Only 23 sleeps to go!

[Adam H]

As Jaime says there is no "proper" way, it was provided to frame the medals up with.

Not sure if the membership is aware, however, new directives have recently come out regarding Canadian memorials. Memorial Bars will once more be issued to next of kin of soldiers. Additionally, the familiar Memorial Scroll the accompanied WWI medals has also been resurrected. Interestingly, the Memorial Bars are WWII era leftover stock that Veterans Affairs had, and have now transferred back to DND.

I posted a thread about it on the British Medal Forum with more details, and links to the DND site with additional info. Here is that thread:

http://www.britishmedalforum.com/vie...p?f=11&t=41398

[Bill A]

The Memorial Bar was a response to a political controversy that developed in the late 1940's. At that time the WW2 issue of medals was being mailed to the next of kin of casualties and to ex-servicemen. Many families were consfused about the medal issue and were unsure about who the medals were for. This was compounded if there was more than one casualty or serviceman at the recipient address. Added to this was the comparison with the WW1 issue of medals where the names were engraved on the edge. A call, supported by the Canadian Legion, came out for the medals to be named to the recipient.
The government of the day studied the issue and concluded, on two main counts that the naming was not practical. One, so many medals had been mailed unnamed that it would be nearly impossible to recall and engrave them. The cost would be prohibitive. In a similar vein, it was thought to be cost prohibitive to provide an allowance for the serviceman (woman) to take the medals to a local source for engraving. After some consideration, the decision was made to send a device to indicate only the identity of the medals for those died in the service. The sterling silver memorial bar was the solution. It could be affixed to the service medal ribbons of the deceased to indicate for whom the medals had been issued.
The decision was made that the bars would be engraved and mailed to all Canadian service personnel who had been killed or died due to their service between 1939 and 1947. (The latter date corresponding to the Books of Remembrance closing date for WW2 casualties.) The issue took on more importance with Canadian participation in the Korean War. The bars were made up over a period of several months and sent by registered mail to the last recorded address of the next of kin of the deceased. This took place in the fall of 1951, over a period of about 6 weeks.
The use of the bar was discussed at some lenght. The then Minister of Defence, Milton Gregg VC suggested that the bar be attached to the ribbons of the service medals. (Memo June 2, 1950. By the time the bar was prepared for Issue, The Hon. Milton Gregg had been replaced by the Hon. J. Lapointe). This was suggested to be a bar with bend over tangs. However the tang idea was impractible, mainly due to the metal (soft silver) and cost involved (again the extra silver that would be needed for the tangs). The compromise was the bar with the small holes for sewing on the ribbons of the medal issue. This was the final solution. Attached is the transmittal and instruction slip sent with the Memorial Bar.
(To read the thumbnail, click on the thumbnail. When it opens click on the thumbnail image again. It should open in a separate window. In that window it can be enlarged for easy reading.)

[Bill A]

Bill, I meant to address two points you made in my previous post.
1. This is a very unusual item. It does not purely fit the definition of a medal. Perhaps a medal device, but even that could be argued. It is a name plate, but meant to be a substitute the naming on the medals. One could argue that this makes it an insignia. It is an interesting "cross over" piece that is part medal and part insignia.
2. The scarcity and relative value of bars raises some questions. As Bill indicated, there was one bar issued for every documented casualty. (Circa 42,000 bars.) These were all mailed out, and every family or next of kin of the casualty should have received a Memorial Bar. Why are they so seldom seen? The fact that they were mailed is one factor, but there must be other factors. The bars were often not "connected" to the medals by the recipient families and not kept with the medals. Many were returnd to the government, address of recipient unknown. (They were mailed by registered mail.) And, perhaps the bar only served to stir emotions again, making the bar an unwelcome reminder. It could also be seen as an after thought, showing the government to be un-caring about the loss until forced to recongnize the sacrifice by outside groups. Perhaps this made the issue repugnant in the eyes of the casualty's family / nok.
What ever the fact the bars are far more difficult to find, yet seem to attract far less interest (and value) than the Mem Crosses.