British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers and Royal Signals.

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 29-01-17, 09:21 PM
grenadierguardsman's Avatar
grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,901
Default

GTB, i believe these grenade's are mentioned in Dress Regs 1900 and 1904.
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 29-01-17, 10:01 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
Thanks for that. K&K misled me re no mention of the GG/RMA type grenade badge in gilding metal for regular Artillery.

GTB
True, oddly enough they do mention the white-metal version as worn on the forage cap by volunteers as K&K 838.

Also mentioned in both versions of 'The Dress of the Royal Artillery' by Major Duncan Alastair Campbell.

Rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 29-01-17, 10:09 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
OK, what did take place instead then? Surely the looped badges are considered early/Edwardian, suggesting later badges didn't come with loops?

Rgds, Thomas.
Thomas,

In Post 2 you said loops were introduced in 1902 and replaced in 1903 by long sliders.

That didnt happen.

Loops on RA cap badges remained well beyond the advent of long sliders on Infantry badges and past 1908 as evidenced on many TF laurel spray scroll badges, Oxford University OTC etc.

I do not know when sliders were officially introduced on RA cap badges, if at all, but the progression from loops to long slider to short slider was not a path that the RA cap badge followed.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 29-01-17, 10:13 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
GTB, i believe these grenade's are mentioned in Dress Regs 1900 and 1904.
Andy
The large Grenadier style grenade is in Dress Regs 1900 as puggaree badge Royal Artillery, the OR's grenade isn't as the dress regs only describe officers dress. By 1904 both were already replaced by the gun badge, so you'll be looking in vain there.

Rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 29-01-17, 10:20 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Thomas,

In Post 2 you said loops were introduced in 1902 and replaced in 1903 by long sliders.

That didnt happen.

Loops on RA cap badges remained well beyond the advent of long sliders on Infantry badges and past 1908 as evidenced on many TF laurel spray scroll badges, Oxford University OTC etc.

I do not know when sliders were officially introduced on RA cap badges, if at all, but the progression from loops to long slider to short slider was not a path that the RA cap badge followed.

regards
Thank you Simon, good to know and I've amended my notes accordingly.

rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 29-01-17, 10:34 PM
grenadierguardsman's Avatar
grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,901
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
The large Grenadier style grenade is in Dress Regs 1900 as puggaree badge Royal Artillery, the OR's grenade isn't as the dress regs only describe officers dress. By 1904 both were already replaced by the gun badge, so you'll be looking in vain there.

Rgds, Thomas.
Yes i should have said Officers only.
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 30-01-17, 07:53 AM
GTB's Avatar
GTB GTB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Malta
Posts: 2,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
Yes i should have said Officers only.
Andy
Thanks, all. Very Worthwhile information.

I am aware that Dress Regs apply exclusively to Officers, but never any harm in mentioning all snippets - sometimes a missing link is brought to light! I recall an article that I came across many years ago concerning grenade badges - I think it hailed from a "Bulletin" issue. I'll try and root it out.

GTB
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 30-01-17, 08:32 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,730
Default

I would point out that the 1903 lugs to sliders and then 1906 long to short sliders only applied to Regular army badges and even then there were exceptions.

The TF (later on and the Pals) were provisioned for by the TF Assns so did not have to follow this direction.

I would be surprised if the Regular pattern RA badges had not followed the ACD instructions in 1903 and 1906.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 30-01-17, 09:57 AM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

Alan,

Point taken over TF badges etc.

But as for regulars dont forget the badge was only introduced in 1902 and had loops. It is unlikely that within a year they would even need to produce more badges and I have found no evidence of long slidered badges. I have seen sliders of varying lengths depending on manufacturer but none that are considerable enough to class as 'Long' If they were in use for 3 years there would be a lot more about.

Bearing in mind what you said about TF badges it is therefore possible that the short slider was adopted in 1906 on regular badges.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 30-01-17, 10:42 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,730
Default

Without seeing the tender documents it's impossible to date the actual issue but you are right that old pattern stocks would be used up before any more were ordered. It may have been later even than 1906.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 30-01-17, 11:51 AM
GTB's Avatar
GTB GTB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Malta
Posts: 2,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
Thanks, all. Very Worthwhile information.

I am aware that Dress Regs apply exclusively to Officers, but never any harm in mentioning all snippets - sometimes a missing link is brought to light! I recall an article that I came across many years ago concerning grenade badges - I think it hailed from a "Bulletin" issue. I'll try and root it out.

GTB
Bulletin in question for November 1977.

GTB
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 30-01-17, 04:40 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
Bulletin in question for November 1977.

GTB
Doesn't seem relevant as neither the universal collar/shoulder grenade nor the Grenadier guards style grenade are featured in the article.

Rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 30-01-17, 05:29 PM
GTB's Avatar
GTB GTB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Malta
Posts: 2,645
Default

Purely to complement what had previously been written concerning gm / wm plain ball grenades.

GTB
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 30-01-17, 05:48 PM
54Bty's Avatar
54Bty 54Bty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 6,293
Default

See: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=59672

Marc
__________________
I am still looking for British Army cloth Formation, Regimental, Battalion, Company and other Unit sleeve badges, from 1980 onwards.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-02-17, 11:25 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

I tend to agree, I think it is inconceivable that badges issued in 1902 were all recalled and new badges issued in the following year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Without seeing the tender documents it's impossible to date the actual issue but you are right that old pattern stocks would be used up before any more were ordered. It may have been later even than 1906.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
royal artillery

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:19 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.