SLIDERS

[KLR]

There is much discussion on what might be 'fake' badges. The most common point is the slider.
'Not the right slider'
'Wrong shaped sl;ider'
etc etc etc etc




Could there be a thread on sliders; - the good, the bad and the ugly!!

crimping,
length,
shape,
metal,
'extruded'
etc
etc


It would be very useful


thanks
J

[grenadierguardsman]

I reckon there could be Julian. Would make for an interesting discussion.
Andy

[Jelly Terror]

Excellent idea for a thread - long overdue.

Perhaps I might start the ball rolling with a few observations relating to F. E. Woodward sliders?

W 8.jpg

The dimensions of Woodward sliders, taken from the forty-odd examples in my collection, all fall within the following parameters:

Length: 38.5mm to 39mm
Width at bend: 5mm to 5.5mm
Width 3mm from bottom end: 4mm
Thickness: just over 1mm

W 9.jpg

Tapering gently inward from the top end to the bottom, the vast majority have a characteristic crimp close to the bend, though there are examples which bear no crimp whatsoever:

W 1.jpg

Not all Woodward sliders are marked with the company name. Excluding Woodward-made Queen's Royal West Surrey badges, approximately 13% of the badges in my collection are unmarked:

W 2.jpg

Given that the Woodward crimp can, on occasion, be recklessly deep, some sliders appear to have been strengthened/repaired at point of manufacture by means of a blob of braze over the crimp itself:

W 3.jpg W 4.jpg

Conversely, some crimp marks can be quite shallow and not nearly as deep as others:

W 7.jpg

But by and large, the vast majority of Woodward sliders bear the characteristic crimp and the company name, though the orientation of the Woodward mark is not always consistent:

W 6.jpg

There are also fake Woodward sliders, some of which are seen more frequently than others; one which springs immediately to mind is the Rydal School OTC badge. I have a small archive of images depicting questionable Woodward sliders/badges, which I will endeavour to add/upload in due course.

[Home Guard]

Excellent!!!!! Thank you for getting this going as it will be a BIG help to me!!!!

Terry

[grenadierguardsman]

Outstanding JT.
Andy

[wardog]

Quality post. Laid down the gauntlet for others who have studied makers variations. Regards, Paul.

[Alex Rice]

If the learned members of the forum can do more threads like JT's it will be an excellent archive. It might be a good idea to collect all the info into a private album which members can ask to join so that fakers are restricted from accessing it. Brilliant idea to start this though!
Cheers,
Alex

[High Wood]

Excellent work J.T., thank you for taking the time to put it all together.

[KLR]

Thanks for getting this going Jelly - brilliant.
What period were Woodward making badges - and sliders!


(I'll go through my anonymous Patt 4362A/1896 KLR OR badges)

[Jelly Terror]

Duplicate post deleted.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by KLR

Thanks for getting this going Jelly - brilliant.
What period were Woodward making badges - and sliders!


(I'll go through my anonymous Patt 4362A/1896 KLR OR badges)

We know for sure that they were marking in 1916, as many of their all-G/M badges bear their stamp.

Of the QRWS badges they produced, I have, to date, never seen a bi-metal example which has the Woodward mark, whereas most (though not all) of their all-G/M lambs have it. The obvious conclusion here is that they were of course producing badges prior to 1916.

As for post-1916 badges, we have no reason to conclude that the company ceased to operate at that time. Given the cessation of the production of all-G/M badges in 1919 (please note that I refer here only to those badges that were previously produced in bi-metal), and the large amount of stock which must have remained unused/unissued, it could be that Woodward (as well as other manufacturers) simply adapted their excess all-G/M stock, by applying (in the case of the Queen's, for example) white metal scrolls directly on top of the unsupplied all-G/M badges. This would provide one explanation as to why we see badges to regiments such as this in bi-metal, with perfectly stamped G/M sections behind the W/M scrolls, and therefore adds (were it needed) some evidence that the company was still in full swing into the latter part of WWI.

W1.jpgW2.jpg

At present, this is about as accurate as I can be. Records pertaining to the Woodward factory seem to be scant and a little difficult to come by. The various archives I have contacted over the years have been able to provide nothing.

[High Wood]

A typical Woodward slider, tapered and with a deep crimp.

[magpie]

The thing I find strange about Woodward sliders and the cyclist's both marked and unmarked is that although they are exactly the same badge they don't have a vavle on the wheel even though it was put on the badge but they are there on the fakes.

[Jelly Terror]

An example of what I believe to be a fake Woodward slider taken (if memory serves) from a Rydal School OTC badge:

Fake Woodward Slider.jpg

Whilst the font used on the fake slider (uppermost) is reasonably close to the genuine font, the differences are apparent. The font stamped into the genuine slider (lowermost) is thicker and spaced much more liberally, being nowhere near as crowded as that on the fake slider. Note, also, the differences between the apostrophes in 'B'HAM', and the spacing between the 'F' and the 'E' on both examples.

And perhaps most obvious of all are the differences in shape and length.

[CAM]

This thread is related to sliders.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=28138

Chris