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  #31  
Old 10-05-19, 04:07 PM
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Mike H Mike H is offline
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Very strange fitting indeed.
Not seen that on any other badge either. Usually the bar type shaped like a cropped pyramid.
I can only think of RRF,RWF and Solihull CCF on anodised that have a hackle holder fitted to the badge.

I did see a few days back ,an RWF with the lugs removed then refitted north and south. I presume this was to fit to the chrome plate for the belt.
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  #32  
Old 10-05-19, 04:49 PM
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All interesting little variations.
RRF's stable belt plate bore what was in effect the anod al beret badge but produced without the hackle attachment and with shorter lugs.
You find the beret badge with hackle attachment broken off being used as an improvised stable belt badge and the stable belt badge painted black for use as an improvised beret badge for NI wear.
The stable belts were of impractical design, an anod al badge fitted to a brass belt plate with a cotter pin and for some goodness knew why reason with two small brass washers.
The badge got worn and damaged easily and the brass work needed Brassoing front and back, so the badge had to be constantly removed and replaced and if the badge lugs got broken you had to adapt a beret badge or buy a complete new belt and plate.
The QMs scrutinised all beret badges offered for exchange to ensure that no one was attempting to pull a fast one with a belt plate badge.
Beret badges usually broke at the junction of ball and flames and both parts had to be produced, not just one.
At least, that were it in mah day back in't 70's.
I don't know what sort of arrangement RWF had with belt plates and fittings, but the grenade badges look a little more substantial at the junction of ball and flame than the RRF design.
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  #33  
Old 18-06-19, 01:09 PM
3dg 3dg is offline
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Hello
I have been reading this thread with interest,especially when it is said that the RWF slidered is fairly scarce
Here is my slidered Gaunt one for scrutiny,

Chris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20190618_135412997.jpg (84.4 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190618_135428521.jpg (75.8 KB, 15 views)
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  #34  
Old 18-06-19, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
Leigh - new one on me. I've got 7 variations on the RWF (lug types, sliders, rivet numbers and configuration etc.). The usual type are a kind of closed triangle or an open triangle where the 'blades' can be pushed together to hold the hackle wires.

This badge I believe to be FIRMIN made - going by the flattened flames on the right, the 2 vertical rivet combination and the all one 'loop' flat lug construction.

Date wise couldn't say. I have a FIRMN bag with this badge in it - although not with the round tubular hackle holder but the closed triangle type (if you see what I mean). This is dated 08/06/05.

Interesting though . . . . another variation to look out for!

Regards all

Bess
Apologies, I've just realised that I have'nt thanked you for this useful info. - "thanks button"

Last edited by leigh kitchen; 18-06-19 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Typo.
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  #35  
Old 18-06-19, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dg View Post
Hello
I have been reading this thread with interest,especially when it is said that the RWF slidered is fairly scarce
Here is my slidered Gaunt one for scrutiny,

Chris
Nice, I have two on sliders, both by Firmin London
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RWF AA by Firmin London 2 badges comparison.jpg (59.8 KB, 13 views)
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  #36  
Old 18-06-19, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
More images of the badge, I haven't seen that type of hackle fitting before.

Edit to add that the flames are rather foreshortened and rounded on the right as viewed from the front and the gold colouring is of a very light shade.
That tubular hackle holder is from after my time, Leigh, and I’ve not seen it before. What is clear to me though is that someone has bent together the prongs/lugs that protrude horizontally from the back of the badge, probably to secure it closer to the beret without using a cotter pin. I’ve seen that done quite frequently. Personally I used plastic separators from the inside of ammunition boxes with two apertures punched through which could then receive the prongs with a snug fit.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 18-06-19 at 11:40 PM.
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  #37  
Old 18-06-19, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
Very strange fitting indeed.
Not seen that on any other badge either. Usually the bar type shaped like a cropped pyramid.
I can only think of RRF,RWF and Solihull CCF on anodised that have a hackle holder fitted to the badge.

I did see a few days back ,an RWF with the lugs removed then refitted north and south. I presume this was to fit to the chrome plate for the belt.
Yes, that configuration of North and South ‘might’ have been done for a belt plate, although throughout the 1970s and early 80s we were still using the old ‘Welsh Brigade’ cap badge on a brass rectangular plate fitted to a white pvc belt of ‘Slade Wallace’ type. In the mid-1980s a Mazak brand clasp was adopted, but in a white chrome finish that was incorrect historically, and fitted to both, green and white courlene (a type of Nylon) web belts. It’s possible that your badge was used on a belt plate by 3 RWF (TA), as the regimental policy was fluid for a few years and the two battalions were not always aligned in every detail. Because no ceremonial belt was publicly funded (issued), other than to the band (new arrivals at the 1st Bn were ‘ordered’ to purchase the Welsh Brigade type from the PRI Shop), there was no consistency across the Regiment as a whole regarding what should be worn with No 2 Dress for a period until the introduction of the Mazak clasp.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 20-06-19 at 06:57 AM.
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  #38  
Old 18-06-19, 08:50 PM
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Hi Guys,

The early RWF badges had sliders and this was changed in 1970 to lugs. Each badge had its own CB No. with the later badge also being issued a NSN at a later date.

I could not find the pattern No. for the slider badge but the lugged badge was 20264.

Regards,

Chris
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  #39  
Old 19-06-19, 06:10 AM
3dg 3dg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBBOND View Post
Nice, I have two on sliders, both by Firmin London
Thank you for sharing Jerry,
Interesting they made two different versions in such a short space of time, I wonder what they thought was wrong with the first one they made?
Chris
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  #40  
Old 19-06-19, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 3dg View Post
Thank you for sharing Jerry,
Interesting they made two different versions in such a short space of time, I wonder what they thought was wrong with the first one they made?
Chris
Chris, one has had its slider bent, making it look more different than it is.
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  #41  
Old 19-06-19, 10:28 AM
bess55 bess55 is offline
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Gents, a really interesting thread - which I have just re read. Was it really nearly 10 years ago that this thread was started by Mike? Where does the time go?

Since my earlier post I have obtained a nice slidered example by R A Hughes - which should be one of the earliest examples the anodised RWF with a slider in AA.

I also attach my RWF page which should show all the various lug and rivet combinations etc, that I've identified. If it cant be seen clearly, I'm happy to add it so it can be read more efficiently.

Also - could the slider or lug issue be attributed to a pre or post Brigade era badge? Just thinking out loud.

Regards all

BESS
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190619_111635.jpg (108.9 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 20190619_111623.jpg (115.9 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 20190619_111207.jpg (67.1 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by bess55; 19-06-19 at 11:00 AM. Reason: shabby spelling
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  #42  
Old 19-06-19, 03:44 PM
3dg 3dg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBBOND View Post
Chris, one has had its slider bent, making it look more different than it is.
Ahh, makes sense, cheers Jerry,
And super collection BESS, thank you for sharing.

Chris
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