Pioneer Sergeant apron badge

[jf42]

Arising from a discussion on another forum, could I ask if there has ever been a survey, or even a line of interest, in badges worn on the Pioneer Sergeant's apron in Full Dress or equivalent situation?

[manchesters]

Sounds interesting.

What badges were/are worn on the apron exactly, I dont know anything about such things unfortunately.

regards

[jf42]

Well, modern illustrations suggest that the Pioneer Sergeant of the Royal Fusiliers wore a grenade badge to pin up one corner of the apron.

From 1881, an insignia based on the regimental cap badge as we understand it today was an obvious option. Looking to the years before that, a more wide-ranging set of options presents itself. From about 1800, some a little earlier, regiments had begun to collect a range of emblems, official or otherwise, that might have been chosen.

[Mike H]

Ive seen a similar kind of grenade badge worn by the RWF on the apron.
No doubt the badges are similar to those worn in the full dress bearskin/busby. Grenade badge with the appropriate regimental badge/cypher on it.

[Tigerlily]

I think Mike is spot on with the fur cap badge, also I think Graham Stewart might have mentioned he has one of the larger Fusilier grenade badges as attached that has felt backing so he thought it might be from a Pioneer Sgts apron. I'm sure Graham will correct me if I'm wrong.

Alli

[41st]

I can add that the badge worn by the RWF is much heavier construction than the fur cap badge but of identical pattern and fixed through the leather apron with two screw fittings.

[jf42]

I should have added that, as with items like Piper Majors' cross belts, the Pioneer Sergeant's apron was an area where regiments could display cherished insignia or emblems(*) without much fear of interference from Horse Guards. As a one-off regimental item, such badges didn't represent a flagrant deviation from regulations or an added expense to soldiers and so didn't attract unwelcome attention.

This was just the sort of expression of individuality that the pre-Childers regiments enjoyed getting away with if they could, and which some battalions continued to explore post-Childers for a remarkably long time.

* For example the enigmatic Fleur de lys emblem of the 63rd/1st Manchesters discussed recently in another thread

[norfolk regt man]

this was worn in 2014

[jf42]

Good lord! Is that- PVC?

[norfolk regt man]

Originally Posted by jf42

Good lord! Is that- PVC?

yep, kinky aint it

[jf42]

There were other words that sprang to mind....

[Pixie]

Originally Posted by jf42

There were other words that sprang to mind....

It looks bloody awful! He's not even ironed it

[orasot]

Here's a pic from the Regiment showing Pioneers, I'll try to do a scan later which may show up better,
Wilf

[jf42]

Originally Posted by Pixie

It looks bloody awful! He's not even ironed it

That, and the combination with whatever we call combat dress nowadays only increases my fears the Regiments are losing the plot. I shudder to think what his beret looks like.....

[Peter Brydon]

jf,

I think it more down to successive cheapskate Governments of all political persuasions.

When you have horrible thick plastic ( white and black ) belts and cross belts replacing leather ones I suppose it is not surprising when leather aprons are replace by ( non ironable ? ) pvc ones.

P.B.