Dustbin Lug Base

[gary1666]

I was under the impression the lugs with the round base where a sign to avoid the badge - is this always the case?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133560625919
This is a Guards badge, very well made by the look of the front with enamel, but at leat one lug is the dustbin lid type - is the badge real? If its not real, it looks well made to my untrained eye.
Its not my thing it just popped up in suggested, and the price made me look.

[Luke H]

Is there a reason you keep flagging up live auctions?

As with the Paras beret if it was an item you were interested in and were it genuine you’d have just highlighted a scarce and valuable item to a whole forum of collectors.

My suggestion is to post photographs rather than links.

Re the badge personally I would not buy it.

[grenadierguardsman]

Its a Fake, quality is horrendous.
Andy

[gary1666]

Thanks Andy.
Luke, nothing wrong with being curious, I personally don't see an issue. You have a slightly accusatory tone, I was under the impression it was all about learning here?
Some people have expressed helpful views on items, and I've bought them , or at least bid. If something is genuine and other people on here see it and they bid it doesn't bother me. If its good enough, many people will spot it,one or two extra from here won't affect me - I'll leave a price, some I'll win,some I'll lose. If someone from the forum with deeper pockets see's it because of my post, I won't lose sleep over it if they outbid me - I'll still learn a little from the experience.
If its a high price, it peaks my interest as it means a few people see it as genuine - if it is genuine, I'll look closely and try and learn why from it. If its a fake, I'll likewise look closely and learn.
One day I'll be in a position with some financial mistakes behind me and subsequent fakes, and I'll be in a position with those mistakes to help people out - until that day, I ask.

[cbuehler]

I would not call the quality horrendous, but isn't what one should expect from an original.

CB

[gary1666]

Hi CB,
I expected a fake to be very poor quality, hence why I asked, it seemed reasonable quality on first inspection. Looking closely though there is some roughness in the line of the red enamel backing at the bottom, and the 'ageing' on the backing plate is not right either.
Gary

[btns]

Originally Posted by gary1666

Thanks Andy.
Luke, nothing wrong with being curious, I personally don't see an issue. You have a slightly accusatory tone, I was under the impression it was all about learning here?
Some people have expressed helpful views on items, and I've bought them , or at least bid. If something is genuine and other people on here see it and they bid it doesn't bother me. If its good enough, many people will spot it,one or two extra from here won't affect me - I'll leave a price, some I'll win,some I'll lose. If someone from the forum with deeper pockets see's it because of my post, I won't lose sleep over it if they outbid me - I'll still learn a little from the experience.
If its a high price, it peaks my interest as it means a few people see it as genuine - if it is genuine, I'll look closely and try and learn why from it. If its a fake, I'll likewise look closely and learn.
One day I'll be in a position with some financial mistakes behind me and subsequent fakes, and I'll be in a position with those mistakes to help people out - until that day, I ask.

My tone is more accusatory. I think you are being selfish. Some members of this forum operate on a low budget which they compensate by searching long and wide. They are hoping to find misrepresented objects and gems lurking in piles of junk. Over time this has become part of their hobby. They hate members showing links to active items.

I think you should start learning from closed auctions.
There is no forum policy stopping you, but I hope your live auction queries will go unanswered.

[gary1666]

Wow...I only ask if its already at a big price, thats what makes me wonder about it. If it was a true sleeper I wouldn't notice it as it wouldn't have the big price tag relative to the item.
I've asked about, I think 4 or 5 items on auction, in 5 years, and I've regretted asking as it always attracts negativity. Many people on here post live auction links asking if good or not, but they don't seem to get grief - is that because they're high contributors, or everyone knows them? Seems to be that way
I think thats the end of me on this forum

[Ex Supt Clk RAOC]

Currently has 20 bids, auction almost over but obviously someone like it. Bid stands at £367.77p at this time.

[gary1666]

I've been urged to come back to answer a couple of points - I may well regret it. Hopefully I have kept it courteous.

Luke, I have often read your posts and learnt a great deal from them. I appreciate you said that your comment wasn't intended to be accusatory and I'll take your view of it on board, but I would say that people tend not to question peoples actions if they believe that action to be inherently 'on the level'. Whether consciously or subconsciously, questioning an action tends to hint at a belief something underhand is occurring. If I am the only person who perceived an element of suspicion in the question then I'll stand to be corrected.

I do appreciate Mike's very balanced view of it, and I didn't really think about the post, until he pointed out the situation of people promoting auctions they have a proprietary interest in. If this was the suspicion then I'll point out now I have nothing to do with the items.

I also appreciate your point about peeking interest in items, although that supposes that I am in some way a little naive - from my point of view, I can't believe there wasn't a person with an interest in Para items on here who didn't have that come up in the saved searches (came up in mine), or had seen it. But I suppose it depends on how much time you spend on Ebay, and I appreciate that some people may not have had the time to find it. If it had been on £4.99 or hidden in a lot, I don't think I, or anyone else, would flag it up, but it was well into 3 figures, so already widely appreciated, and therefore very unlikely to be a bargain. I am looking to get Para items for my collection, and I weigh up cost against authenticity - would I rather take a risk with it being real? or as in this case, take a risk it costs me a little more by putting it on the forum, already knowing its been heavily bid on anyway and highly unlikely to be cheap but receiving some guidance as to authenticity. Probably a fraction of the bidders were even on this forum.

The Guards badge I thought was bad, but so many people bid, I thought I had missed something.

btns - well you certainly came in strong, both feet jumped straight in there.

Selfish - handily you provided some points which you used to quantify your assertion.**

Some members of this forum operate on a low budget which they compensate by searching long and wide. They are hoping to find misrepresented objects and gems lurking in piles of junk. Over time this has become part of their hobby. They hate members showing links to active items.

Of the two items I asked about, none where hidden in a lot as a so called sleeper and therefore not in the category of an item you would have to scour junk lots for - the beret in to 3 figures at the time of posting, the Guards badge on £330 odd. Both where single stand alone items and well described as to what they purported to be, as clearly the sellers wanted people to actually find them and bid, clearly not falling in to your 'mistepresented' category. I appreciate people hunt for bargains, I am one of them - who would post a bargain item and alert others?

Using your own reasoning, you will find that neither lot fitted your own stated criteria, simply clicking the link in the relevant posts would have clarified this. Your comment was a generalisation, and in this context without basis, therefore I would say unwarranted.

Having driven a 48 mile round journey on my only day off recently, solely to collect something for a forum member that they had asked on this forum for help with, and sent it to them for free, I tend to not class myself as selfish.

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by gary1666

I've been urged to come back to answer a couple of points - I may well regret it. Hopefully I have kept it courteous.

Luke, I have often read your posts and learnt a great deal from them. I appreciate you said that your comment wasn't intended to be accusatory and I'll take your view of it on board, but I would say that people tend not to question peoples actions if they believe that action to be inherently 'on the level'. Whether consciously or subconsciously, questioning an action tends to hint at a belief something underhand is occurring. If I am the only person who perceived an element of suspicion in the question then I'll stand to be corrected.

I do appreciate Mike's very balanced view of it, and I didn't really think about the post, until he pointed out the situation of people promoting auctions they have a proprietary interest in. If this was the suspicion then I'll point out now I have nothing to do with the items.

I also appreciate your point about peeking interest in items, although that supposes that I am in some way a little naive - from my point of view, I can't believe there wasn't a person with an interest in Para items on here who didn't have that come up in the saved searches (came up in mine), or had seen it. But I suppose it depends on how much time you spend on Ebay, and I appreciate that some people may not have had the time to find it. If it had been on £4.99 or hidden in a lot, I don't think I, or anyone else, would flag it up, but it was well into 3 figures, so already widely appreciated, and therefore very unlikely to be a bargain. I am looking to get Para items for my collection, and I weigh up cost against authenticity - would I rather take a risk with it being real? or as in this case, take a risk it costs me a little more by putting it on the forum, already knowing its been heavily bid on anyway and highly unlikely to be cheap but receiving some guidance as to authenticity. Probably a fraction of the bidders were even on this forum.

The Guards badge I thought was bad, but so many people bid, I thought I had missed something.

btns - well you certainly came in strong, both feet jumped straight in there.

Selfish - handily you provided some points which you used to quantify your assertion.**

Some members of this forum operate on a low budget which they compensate by searching long and wide. They are hoping to find misrepresented objects and gems lurking in piles of junk. Over time this has become part of their hobby. They hate members showing links to active items.

Of the two items I asked about, none where hidden in a lot as a so called sleeper and therefore not in the category of an item you would have to scour junk lots for - the beret in to 3 figures at the time of posting, the Guards badge on £330 odd. Both where single stand alone items and well described as to what they purported to be, as clearly the sellers wanted people to actually find them and bid, clearly not falling in to your 'mistepresented' category. I appreciate people hunt for bargains, I am one of them - who would post a bargain item and alert others?

Using your own reasoning, you will find that neither lot fitted your own stated criteria, simply clicking the link in the relevant posts would have clarified this. Your comment was a generalisation, and in this context without basis, therefore I would say unwarranted.

Having driven a 48 mile round journey on my only day off recently, solely to collect something for a forum member that they had asked on this forum for help with, and sent it to them for free, I tend to not class myself as selfish.

Well said mate!

Dave.

[Frank Kelley]

I think you have indeed missed something with the Guards badge, you have missed wasting your money, well done.

To be quite honest it is simply human nature, but, I think you are absolutely right, I never cease to be amazed by the rubbish being hawked on ebay as original and the amount of it that ends up on this site for an opinion as to it's originality, after being bought.

After reading this thread, I would not class you as selfish.

Originally Posted by gary1666

The Guards badge I thought was bad, but so many people bid, I thought I had missed something.


Some members of this forum operate on a low budget which they compensate by searching long and wide. They are hoping to find misrepresented objects and gems lurking in piles of junk. Over time this has become part of their hobby. They hate members showing links to active items.



Having driven a 48 mile round journey on my only day off recently, solely to collect something for a forum member that they had asked on this forum for help with, and sent it to them for free, I tend to not class myself as selfish.

[Frank Kelley]

I would not be confident in suggesting that this was actually contemporary with the period the regiment was extant, notwithstanding the lugs and the current bidding, I could never be happy with these badges.

Originally Posted by gary1666

I was under the impression the lugs with the round base where a sign to avoid the badge - is this always the case?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133560625919
This is a Guards badge, very well made by the look of the front with enamel, but at leat one lug is the dustbin lid type - is the badge real? If its not real, it looks well made to my untrained eye.
Its not my thing it just popped up in suggested, and the price made me look.

[Ex Supt Clk RAOC]

I could not say if its genuine or a copy, as it's just not something that is of interest to me. Someone liked it enough to pay £510 for it in the end.
A lot to splash out if its wrong.