Sherwood Foresters

[Spencer]

Anyone have a pic of a WW1 version of this . I think this one is probably later .

[jeanpit-frenchy]

this is my badge (from my grand father, i hope is genuine WW1....now i was afraid when i put a picture that sombody tell me it's a fake....

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by jeanpit-frenchy

this is my badge (from my grand father, i hope is genuine WW1....now i was afraid when i put a picture that sombody tell me it's a fake....

Jeanpit,

It looks a little fresh on the back of the scroll but looking at the raised edges of the scroll they appear darker and have a more ww1 period tone, I believe that its probably plating on the scroll.

A lot of early badges were covered in a plating which makes the badges appear much brighter, this was normally polished off due to the sergents bull but if you had a lax NCO you could probably get away with it especially on the back which I think is the case here.

I wouldn't doubt it.

Luke

[Luke H]

Spencer,

You're quite right it is in all probability a second war badge but a good one I think, I have a Notts & Derby I believe is circa WW1 (or at least pretty early any road), shall try and get a picture to you.

Luke

[Spencer]

Now this is slightly confusing as I would say the badge I'm showing has a tapering slider . May be it is not so prominent in the picture but is when I am looking at it . If so wouldn't that make it WW1 ?

[Alan O]

Either or neither could be WW1 or WW2. The slider differences are imposible to date for certain. Longer sliders are indicative of an older badge but there are always exceptions from where makers kept the old style sliders for WW2 badges. If I were you I would be happy with the one you have.

Alan

[Spencer]

Sounds good advice .
Thanks
Spencer

[Luke H]

Spencer,

All brass economy badges can be stratified to WW1 as such you can use the slider on them as a basis for deciding what a good WW1 slider looks like.

Alan is right in that there was variation I have a Welsh Fusiliers with quite a short dumpty slider but am sure its real. If you look at the pictures I sent you the best examples of WW1 sliders were on the BM Munsters I emailed you (by far), followed by the all brass RMF and Young citizens... although they do taper towards the end enough for one to notice they are generally a lot slenderer (my example of 7th and 12th (Rangers) London's weren't the best in hindsight, I don't have many pics on my computer in London and I dug those out of emailed pics just to illustrate a tapering slider).

Your slider on the Notts & Derby is fatter substancially tapering rather than thinner slightly tapering (the latter is what appears on older badges), if you recall the example I gave of the FN RIR badge which was a robust thick slider which tapers substancially which has been dated to WW2.

So more slenderer slightly tapering sliders are generally the key to spotting an old pre 20s badge (but like anything else in this game its a rule of thumb I'm afraid)

The attached pic of an economy East Lancs shows a WW1 slider (a lot thinner that the one on your Notts and Derby).

Hope I haven't confused the issue or you to the point of tearing your hair out.

Luke

[Jibba Jabba]

I can post a genuine veteran obtained family piece. Sadly Albert William Parker died of Pneumonia as a result of life in the trenches, he was 25 years old. This is his badge he cherished until the end, it has been polished.

I was told by a Nottingham dealer to look out for the none voided crown as being one distinguishing feature of a WW1 badge. With so many manufactures and the re-issue of badges in WW2 I have not formed an opinion.

[MH331]

I am not sure that non voided badges signify a WW1 badge I have an example directly from a1/5th Bn Notts and Derby MM winner that has a voided crown. Personally I prefer the voided to non voided crown,but I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the non voided pattern. Being a Notts and Derby collector I think its almost impossible to date a genuine Bi-metal badge precisely to WW1 or WW2.

regards

Mark

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

I can post a genuine veteran obtained family piece. Sadly Albert William Parker died of Pneumonia as a result of life in the trenches, he was 25 years old. This is his badge he cherished until the end, it has been polished.

I was told by a Nottingham dealer to look out for the none voided crown as being one distinguishing feature of a WW1 badge. With so many manufactures and the re-issue of badges in WW2 I have not formed an opinion.

[Jibba Jabba]

Hi Mark,

Would that be the 1/5th grouping you aquired from eBay with trench club? If I remember correctly does that group not have a very good close-up portrait photo of the cap badge?

One always has to be very careful with veteran obtained items. Sometimes they are not always items obtained during their time in the service, they can be aquired from places like old comrades meetings.

Sadly in all of my period postcards of the regiment the holes (if there are any are any) are almost impossible to see. I`ll bet the none voided crown badges were re-issued from regimental stores for WW2.

[Keith Blakeman]

Can I have your opinion on this one please Mark.

[Jibba Jabba]

Keith I`m unsure about your badge. This could be an original ED VII badge that has been cleaned up. Be warned there are some good fakes of these around, the clever fakes have a pierced crown and slider so your lucky this badge isnt one of those. I very much suspect these fakes are genuine N&D badges that have had the scroll replaced.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

Keith I`m unsure about your badge. This could be an original ED VII badge that has been cleaned up. Be warned there are some good fakes of these around, the clever fakes have a pierced crown and slider so your lucky this badge isnt one of those. I very much suspect these fakes are genuine N&D badges that have had the scroll replaced.

There are plenty of slidered ones around but this is the first I've seen with lugs. Scroll replacement was something I'd wondered about but we'll never know, in any case it was a shame to bugger up a lugged N & D to do it if that's the case.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

There are plenty of slidered ones around but this is the first I've seen with lugs. Scroll replacement was something I'd wondered about but we'll never know, in any case it was a shame to bugger up a lugged N & D to do it if that's the case.

Same unfortunate thing happens with the curvy scrolled Leinster... snap the scroll of a nice Welsh Regt and replace with a Leinster scroll and you've turned a badge worth a fiver into one worth £50 with just a small bit of brass and a couple spots of braze.

I'm always curious with these KC Derbyshires and KC two towered Suffolks, why do they so often appear with sliders if supposedly from 1902ish... I'd have thought they'd be nearly universally slidered?

Luke