Pre 1922 152nd, 153rd and 155th Punjabi titles

[cymro]

With all the confidence of a kitten wandering into a wolves-only night club I'd like to ask about where and with what likelihood of success one would look for the pre 1921 shoulder titles of the 3rd/152nd, 1st/153rd & 2nd/153rd Punjabis. I am a Welsh collector and am looking to complete a collection to the 53rd Welsh Division that served in Palestine 1916-1918. In order to be thorough I am looking to include the shoulder titles worn by the Indian units that came in in May and June 1918 to replace the British battalions that had gone to France.

I may be asking for the moon on a stick here, but I'm afraid my ignorance of Indian Great War titles knows no bounds and I wanted to ask the assembled and significant knowledge on here for their ideas.

In short, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated and responded to immediately.

With Best Wishes
Jon

[peter monahan]

YOU DARE TO ENTER... oh, never mind. Welcome aboard, Jon.

1) The fairly rare photographic evidence, particularly for Mespot and the East seems to suggest that the wearing of shoulder titles was far from universal in the IA on campaign.

2) All of these battalions were composite units, formed with drafts from battalions already in theatre. [See the crib from Wikipedia below].

3) I'd say that the balance of probabilities is that these men would have worn no shoulder titles, as wearing the mixture of original unit badging would certainly have been unacceptable and the supply situation was such that new badges cannot have been very high on the priorities list.

4) That is a semi-informed guess and worth what you've paid for it!

[peter monahan]

3/152nd – The 152nd Punjabis was formed of three battalions in May 1918. The first two were formed in Mesopotamia with companies posted from battalions serving in the 14th, 15th, 17th, and 18th Indian Divisions. In contrast, the 3rd Battalion was formed in Palestine with companies posted from battalions already serving in the theatre. The 3rd Battalion was formed on 24 May 1918[21] by the transfer of complete companies from: 20th Duke of Cambridge's Own Infantry, 21st Punjabis, 27th Punjabis and 28th Punjabis

1st/ 153rd & 2/153rd - The 153rd Punjabis was formed of three battalions in May 1918. The 1st Battalion was formed in Mesopotamia with companies posted from battalions serving in the 14th, 15th, and 18th Indian Divisions. It was transferred to Egypt during June and July 1918. In contrast, the 2nd and 3rd Battalions were formed in Palestine with companies posted from battalions already serving in the theatre, particularly from the 3rd (Lahore) and 7th (Meerut) Divisions.

On 13 November, the 75th Division concentrated at Lydda and by 10 December had moved back to Qantara. On 18 January 1919, instructions were received that the Indian battalions would be returned to India as transport became available.[25] The battalions were disbanded in 1920, ’21 And ’22.

[cymro]

That's a flippin' smashing response Peter, super - comprehensive and confirmation if any were needed of my forehead-slapping ignorance of Indian insignia in the great war. The National Army Museum have a couple of 152 titles in their collection (below). Possibly theatre made or done post hostilities do you think?

Originally Posted by peter monahan

3/152nd – The 152nd Punjabis was formed of three battalions in May 1918. The first two were formed in Mesopotamia with companies posted from battalions serving in the 14th, 15th, 17th, and 18th Indian Divisions. In contrast, the 3rd Battalion was formed in Palestine with companies posted from battalions already serving in the theatre. The 3rd Battalion was formed on 24 May 1918[21] by the transfer of complete companies from: 20th Duke of Cambridge's Own Infantry, 21st Punjabis, 27th Punjabis and 28th Punjabis

1st/ 153rd & 2/153rd - The 153rd Punjabis was formed of three battalions in May 1918. The 1st Battalion was formed in Mesopotamia with companies posted from battalions serving in the 14th, 15th, and 18th Indian Divisions. It was transferred to Egypt during June and July 1918. In contrast, the 2nd and 3rd Battalions were formed in Palestine with companies posted from battalions already serving in the theatre, particularly from the 3rd (Lahore) and 7th (Meerut) Divisions.

On 13 November, the 75th Division concentrated at Lydda and by 10 December had moved back to Qantara. On 18 January 1919, instructions were received that the Indian battalions would be returned to India as transport became available.[25] The battalions were disbanded in 1920, ’21 And ’22.

[Wmr-RHB]

BTW, as far as I know, the 155th were not 155th Punjabis, but 155th Indian Pioneers.

Their shoulder title (if one existed) may have reflected that and thus might look different from what you are searching for.

Also I have at least one source that says the it is 153rd Punjab Infantry (but 152nd Punjabis).

[cymro]

Blimey, it’s pretty complex out in Indian badge land! For the purposes of display it could also be possible that if they wore anything they may have retained the titles of their original unit it seems...