QUEENS OWN BUFFS

[Restrikes-ok]

QOB Restrke in a very big PWRR collection (by EG Frames)PWRR2 008.jpg

[Queensman]

Originally Posted by doddsy

Could anyone please tell me. Did The Queens Own Buffs 1961 - 1966 have their own cap badge or did they wear just the Home Counties Brigade Badge? Also could you please tell me if they had their own shoulder titles as I can't find either anywhere, Thanks

I have been on the trail of a QOB cap badge for as long as I care to remember!
As previously mentioned, they are very rare as it was only the Territorial battalion that wore them - the Regular battalion wore the ‘Corona top’ badge (Saxon Crown & Sword) of the Home Counties Brigade.

I took delivery of a fine pair of silvered QOB collar dogs on Monday. I’ve got the brass shoulder titles…….still looking for the badge!

[Alan O]

I struggle with this badge and whilst I know that they have been made I remain suspicious as to the dates for production. In Invicta the Regimental Journal of the Queens Own Buffs it was recorded in March 1961 that

'The Members, both serving and retired, of the three Territorial Bns. of the two Regiments—these (with the Cadet Bns.) will of course continue to bear the old titles and to wear the old badges and thus will perpetuate the names of the two Regiments. They will, however, form part of the amalgamated Regiment.'

and at the farewell parade of the same year the farewell address stated that for the TA Battalion:

'The Queen’s Own Royal West Kent Regiment—will continue in being, retaining its old title and its old cap badge—The White Horse—although it will, of course, form part of the amalgamated Regiment. One of its Companies will continue to be based at Union Street, and thus your citizens will still see the ‘Royal West
Kent ’ flash and the good old cap badge in its streets.'

and as far as cadets go the CO of the Queens Own RWK cadets stated that:

'He said that much had happened during the last few months in view of the Amalgamation of the Queen's Own and The Buffs, but he, as O.C. of the 4th Battalion of the cadets was very proud to be one of the units to carry the Queen’s Own Badge. There were only two left now.'

Whilst the new design is certainly used as a logo and on notepaper. But with the regular Battalion wearing the HC Bde badge (sealed 1958) and the TA and cadets wearing the older badges then who was supposed to be wearing the QOB badge as a cap badge and why is it not authorised for production and made in a/a? Add to this the fact that the Buffs and the RWK were both sealed for production in a/a in 1964 for wear by TA and cadets, then I smell a rat.

However the regiment did commission regimental car badges from Gaunts. See this picture from their 1961 Journal. Hopefully you can see where I am going with this?

[Alan O]

And from the ACF they stated in Sep 1961 that:

'There are several ex-Regular and T.A. Officers, Sgt.- Majors and Sgts. of The Queen’s Own serving with this cadet Bn. and we are proud of the fact that, in common with the T.A. Bn. of The Queen’s Own, we still wear the old cap badge and endeavour to keep up the old traditions of the Regt.'

[Alan O]

And just to seal the point this photo is of the CO of the 4th Buffs TA at a medal parade in 1966 just before the formation of the Queen's Regiment, which the journal records in its last edition, would see all the Battalions of the Queen's Regiment wearing a new cap badge design.

In 1965 the Regimental Journal printed the following:

'In this merger, The Buffs retained their 200-yearold name but lost their Dragon badge (except in their
Territorial units).'

[Alan O]

This photo is from the 5th Buffs TA in 1965. No doubt which cap badge they are wearing either.

[Alan O]

In conclusion whilst its certain that Gaunts made a metal QOB badge and it was sold by the RHQ on items such as the car grill, the reality is that it does not seem to have been either sealed as a cap badge, authorised for wear for the Regular, TA or cadets battalions and contemporary accounts and photos show the Buffs badge (and thus the RWK as well) in use right up to the re-titling of the Battalions as Queen's in 1996.

So caveat emptor if you see one coming up for sale.

[Luke H]

I think by mid-1960s onwards Gaunt were all too aware of the commercial saleability of military badges to the collectors market.

The unofficial AA TF badge cohort all bearing the Gaunt London Ltd mark believed to date from the 1960s are a good example.

The concurrent QOYY thread with the large 1950s Gaunt London mark is another example. I do not doubt the die and initial run were made by Gaunt but moreover were they sealed and not issued in WM or struck purely for the collectors market.

As ever with Gaunt, their marks and badges there are all too often question marks in tow especially in the QC era, hence one of the main reasons my collection cuts off at 1952.

[Alan O]

Luke

I am not sure if such a cap badge even exists but if it does then it is at best a very short-run 'commerative' piece or worst a forgery potentially converting another metal badge.

The regimental magazine is full of discussion from the associations about their new lapel badges and the design is very different from the supposed cap badge. It was not produced for Association wear by the old boys either.

Alan

[Luke H]

Member ‘Stormynorm’ in post #11 states he wore one.

However his only other forum post gives some further info that it was whilst on attachment to the US 8th Army in Korea in 1966. He continues ‘‘ The offices cap badge was made of silver and other ranks was of staybright,’’

I see no reason to doubt this gentleman’s recollection. The date would also be more commensurate with an AA.

The BM badges can be found with Gaunt B’ham sliders:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...64&postcount=1

I’ve not heard of any B’ham sliders on a metal badge pre-1970s fake flood. Also the snub nose horse is similar to some known fakes in my House of Gaunt album. Albeit I admit to not having studied it properly as it’s outside my area of interest.

I see there is an option on his profile page to send an email. Perhaps it is worth trying to contact him directly as he has not been online since 2012. Hopefully he’s still with us.

[Alan O]

Sorry his account is bollocks. HC Bde badge replaced by the QOH - really?.
Ask Chris Marsh how he missed this a/a badge. Simple fact is that he did not

The Gaunt Bham is total fakery. If it was made 1941-66 then it would be in a/a like every other new design and officially issued badge of that period; I have read every edition of the QOH journal and it is conclusive what they wore.

Hugh King omitted this one and Gaylor and even P Taylor from their publications! I don't think so.

[Luke H]

As I said this badge is beyond the scope of my collecting interests and is in an area you are far more well versed in and researched than I.

Chris’ book is excellent and undoubtedly the authoritative work on its subject. A book not to have a single mistake, omission or gap is a rare thing. We know KK and Gaylor didn’t manage it.

I agree the metal Gaunt B’ham badges are certainly repro.

As to badges not being in other books. To my knowledge the Cardiff City Battalion cap badge (Welch cap badge with ch spelling) still isn’t in any major publication. Yet it exists and has done for over 100 years now.

I’ve emailed the gent. Hopefully I get a reply.

[Alan O]

I have checked Regtl Journals for 1966 when the Battalion was in the Far East. Without doubt Home Counties Brigade cap badge with a/a collars such as this one:

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail....c=2001-08-37-1

[leigh kitchen]

A seller was offering two Queen's Own Buffs left facing anodised aluminium collar badges on ebay a few months ago, I think they were buy it nows at £7 each.

[Alan O]

Cultman had a facing pair on his website as well.