Possible Dutch cloth badge - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Badger44 · #1 06-09-10, 09:02 PM

Does any member know this cloth badge? It looks like the lion on the Dutch national arm badge, but without the motto. It is white on black and of the Brabant weave type of manufacture. Could this possibly be an early, wartime version of the National arm badge? Any comments would be welcome.

fougasse1940 · #2 08-09-10, 11:33 AM

It is not an early arm badge, don't know what it is though. Not featured in te Dutch sleeve badges book.

Rgds,
fougasse1940

Badger44 · #3 08-09-10, 06:59 PM

Thanks Fougasse, for your input. I did not know that there is a book on Dutch sleeve badges available. Do you have any details of this? Is it still in print?

I based my assumption on it being a sleeve badge on the fact that the lion is virtually the same as that on the National arm sign. Possibly some other organisation may use it too.

fougasse1940 · #4 09-09-10, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger44

Thanks Fougasse, for your input. I did not know that there is a book on Dutch sleeve badges available. Do you have any details of this? Is it still in print?

I based my assumption on it being a sleeve badge on the fact that the lion is virtually the same as that on the National arm sign. Possibly some other organisation may use it too.

The book is called 'De mouwemblemen van het Nederlandse leger / The Sleevebadges of the Netherlands Army' by C.P. Coenders, C. v. Ekeris & B.C. Cats, second and last (?) Edition 1978. Published by Brabantia Nostra, Breda. Bi-lingual (Dutch/English) as the title implies. Difficult to find.

The lion is the central device of the Dutch Royal Arms, so basically it could be anything, probably even non-military. Perhaps some fellow Dutch forum members can shed some light on this?

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

BWEF · #5 09-09-10, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

The book is called 'De mouwemblemen van het Nederlandse leger / The Sleevebadges of the Netherlands Army' by C.P. Coenders, C. v. Ekeris & B.C. Cats, second and last (?) Edition 1978. Published by Brabantia Nostra, Breda. Bi-lingual (Dutch/English) as the title implies. Difficult to find.

The lion is the central device of the Dutch Royal Arms, so basically it could be anything, probably even non-military. Perhaps some fellow Dutch forum members can shed some light on this?

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

There is also a companion book on the cap badges etc.

fougasse1940 · #6 10-09-10, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWEF

There is also a companion book on the cap badges etc.

Yes, it is called 'De wapenemblemen van het Nederlandse leger / Netherlands Army regimental badges' by B.C. Cats & C.P. Coenders. Still looking for that one...

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

Voltigeur · #7 10-09-10, 01:03 PM

Check this guys.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sear...ts=t&x=51&y=14

Jo

Badger44 · #8 10-09-10, 01:46 PM

Thank you, gentlemen, for the further information on the books available. I was aware of the one on cap badges, as I already have this, but I was not aware of the one on sleeve badges. Thanks Voltigeur for the link to Abe Books.
I am grateful for all input, although from what BWEF says, as the device on the badge is part of the National Arms, it could indeed be something for a civilian service rather than military. Perhaps we shall never know!!

BWEF · #9 10-09-10, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger44

Thank you, gentlemen, for the further information on the books available. I was aware of the one on cap badges, as I already have this, but I was not aware of the one on sleeve badges. Thanks Voltigeur for the link to Abe Books.
I am grateful for all input, although from what BWEF says, as the device on the badge is part of the National Arms, it could indeed be something for a civilian service rather than military. Perhaps we shall never know!!

I have both books, picked them up in Holland in the early 1980s. This week- end I will dig out the "badge" book and see if there is anything like your badge in it.

From memory, I doubt it. The book shows a units post-war cap badge, based on the W for Wilhelmina, plus the shoulder badge in metal worn on battledress and the later collar badge on coloured tab.

Do you think that your badge might have been worn by "the other side"? Maybe the NSB or similar?

Badger44 · #10 10-09-10, 10:20 PM

Hi BWEF,

I've absolutely no idea what organisation or unit wore this badge. As I said before, my only reason for assuming it is Dutch is that the design is similar to the other Dutch National arm patches I have. Does anyone know whether the colours of white on black are significant, rather than the orange on khaki of the regular national arm patch?

fougasse1940 · #11 11-09-10, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWEF

I have both books, picked them up in Holland in the early 1980s. This week- end I will dig out the "badge" book and see if there is anything like your badge in it.

From memory, I doubt it. The book shows a units post-war cap badge, based on the W for Wilhelmina, plus the shoulder badge in metal worn on battledress and the later collar badge on coloured tab.

Do you think that your badge might have been worn by "the other side"? Maybe the NSB or similar?

I very much doubt "the other side" would have worn anything relating to the Royal family. As far as the colours, could it have been something worn by the KNIL or Dutch navy?

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

BWEF · #12 11-09-10, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

I very much doubt "the other side" would have worn anything relating to the Royal family. As far as the colours, could it have been something worn by the KNIL or Dutch navy?

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

You could be right, as it was a complete guess based on the colours.

However, who knows how traitors minds work? The "British Free Corps" used the three lions from the Royal Arms of England.

Of course, the three lions are not in the "correct" colours, but then again the English football team does not use the "correct" colours either.

BWEF · #13 13-09-10, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Yes, it is called 'De wapenemblemen van het Nederlandse leger / Netherlands Army regimental badges' by B.C. Cats & C.P. Coenders. Still looking for that one...

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

As promised, I managed to "dig out" my copy of "Wapenemblemen" over the week end.

As I had suspected, there does not seem to be anything like the queried badge depicted in this book.

Out of general interest I have scanned a sample page of the book. If a unit still existed by the time the Dutch army adopted their new uniforms in the 1960s the badge worn on the collar is illustrated, as well as the cap badge and the shoulder badge worn when they were in battledress. Older defunct units have just the cap badge and the shoulder badge.

Very good book but, in my view, would have been better if the cap badges were depicted with the rectangular coloured backings, and the collar badges were on their coloured backings too.

fred40 · #14 17-10-11, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger44

Does any member know this cloth badge? It looks like the lion on the Dutch national arm badge, but without the motto. It is white on black and of the Brabant weave type of manufacture. Could this possibly be an early, wartime version of the National arm badge? Any comments would be welcome.

Hi,

It"s Dutch but from a civilian organisation.Impossible to tell which one.

Greetings

Fred

btns · #15 17-10-11, 05:25 PM

my options: customs or prison service