14th 20th King's Hussars Gold Hawk

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

Can anyone give me a timeline of the existance of the 14th/20th King's Hussars Gold anodised or brass cap badge. I am under the impression that it was replaced in 1968 with the black version.

Many Thanks

Chris

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

Any thoughts?

Was it before 1973?

Regards

Chris

[lettman]

Chris,
According to Gaylor the brass version of the 'hawk' was used from 1931 to 1968, when it changed to black. I don't know when the anodised version was sealed.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by lettman

Chris,
According to Gaylor the brass version of the 'hawk' was used from 1931 to 1968, when it changed to black. I don't know when the anodised version was sealed.

Thanks Lettman,

Why I'm asking is because of this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=380062429496

Note the maker. LB&B co Ltd did not come into existence until 1973 and although there are a few badges out there with a LB&B slider on from units that ceased active service pre 1973 these sliders are unmarked. This one however is marked.

Could Gaylor have been wrong?

Regards

Chris

[lettman]

John Bodsworth (Uniforms and Insignia of the RAC since 1946) gives a date of 1969 for the introduction of the black hawk, and I've seen other sources confirming roughly 1968-69. I can't explain the LB&B mark on a gilt badge, unless it's some kind of memento strike.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by lettman

John Bodsworth (Uniforms and Insignia of the RAC since 1946) gives a date of 1969 for the introduction of the black hawk, and I've seen other sources confirming roughly 1968-69. I can't explain the LB&B mark on a gilt badge, unless it's some kind of memento strike.

Thanks Lettman,

My thoughts re: memento strike too. The interesting thing is that the general though is that these memento strikes or unofficial commissions were free of maker marks while this one carries the LB&B co Ltd name.

Yet another thing to take on board with anodised badges.

Many Thanks

Chris

[Alan O]

K&K Vol 2 give a 1961 sealed date. i would suggest that this is either a typo or for the gold a/a date. If the black one was 1961 then the gold one would have had to have been even earlier which would be very odd as other cav regts (9th, 4th, 3rd Hussars) were not wearing any a/a that early. To clarify they (and the 8th hussars) were still wearing metal ones when they amlagamated 1958-60.

Alan

[3748 Hussar]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

K&K Vol 2 give a 1961 sealed date. i would suggest that this is either a typo or for the gold a/a date. If the black one was 1961 then the gold one would have had to have been even earlier which would be very odd as other cav regts (9th, 4th, 3rd Hussars) were not wearing any a/a that early.

Alan

Alan,

As a collector of 3rd/4th Hussars . As of today I have never found any proof of these Regt's wearing AA Cap badges. Iv;e been to the regt Museum's , HHQ of both with no joy . Maybe you have info I have been searching for!

3478 Hussar

[Alan O]

Sorry, I was not clear - none of those regts ever wore a/a cap badges. As they were all gone by 1960 I think it would be rather odd for the 14/20th to on on their second design within a year of that. That is why i think K&K's date of 1961 may be wrong and it may be for gold version.

Alan

[lettman]

The 1961 date for the black badge has got to be an error in K&K. The earliest possible date for a 14/20th black hawk is 1965, because the author (whoever he is) of Badge Backings and Special Embellishments of the British Army says that the regt wore a primrose backing on the beret from 1965-1978 to highlight the black badge. Personally I think this is also a mistake, because it's out of kilter with every other reference I've seen, but I'd love to hear from a veteran of the unit to verify one way or the other.

[3748 Hussar]

Originally Posted by lettman

The 1961 date for the black badge has got to be an error in K&K. The earliest possible date for a 14/20th black hawk is 1965, because the author (whoever he is) of Badge Backings and Special Embellishments of the British Army says that the regt wore a primrose backing on the beret from 1965-1978 to highlight the black badge. Personally I think this is also a mistake, because it's out of kilter with every other reference I've seen, but I'd love to hear from a veteran of the unit to verify one way or the other.

Hi All

Sorry I am compleatly lost I was under the impression that the backing on these patterns were as the attached pic

3748 Hussar

[Alan O]

http://www.1420h.org/gallery.htm

This has some interesting photos of the regt wearing rectangular mid-blue backings on their berets in the 1980s.

KAO

[lettman]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

http://www.1420h.org/gallery.htm

This has some interesting photos of the regt wearing rectangular mid-blue backings on their berets in the 1980s.

KAO

In which of the collections, Alan? There are a lot to wade through here.

[lettman]

Originally Posted by 3748 Hussar

Hi All

Sorry I am compleatly lost I was under the impression that the backing on these patterns were as the attached pic

3748 Hussar

Lovely pic, 3748 Hussar. Note my underlining of 'black', however -- my reference concerned wearing the black hawk.

[3748 Hussar]

Originally Posted by lettman

Lovely pic, 3748 Hussar. Note my underlining of 'black', however -- my reference concerned wearing the black hawk.

Hi Letterman,

Yes my mistake started to read the inital thread, couldn't see the wood for the trees .

3748 Hussar