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  #31  
Old 12-04-15, 05:58 PM
arrestingu arrestingu is offline
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Hi ,
Thanks , though would still like to see the VICTORIAN SINGLE CROWN front and back as worn on the shako .
Seems to be a lot of discussion as what is or isn't official issue with these single crowns , it would be useful if anyone could provide a picture of a real one...for future reference !!!
Many thanks
Steve
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  #32  
Old 15-04-15, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrestingu View Post
Hi ,
Thanks , though would still like to see the VICTORIAN SINGLE CROWN front and back as worn on the shako .
Seems to be a lot of discussion as what is or isn't official issue with these single crowns , it would be useful if anyone could provide a picture of a real one...for future reference !!!
Many thanks
Steve
I'm afraid that the definitive answer to your question Steve is that no one really has the answer.I am sure that HMPbadges has a number of Victorian Crowns as have other collectors but I have no doubt that they will differ from each others.The Prison Service by disposing of their collection to The Galleries of Justice shows how much interest they had in the history of the service and as I have stated along with others on this site that trying to gain information from the GoJ is like pulling hens teeth we will not discover the truth.To compound matters I've seen early photos of prison staff wearing the Victorian Crown badge and they appear to differ so I am fairly certain that there were variations.
Hwyl,
Bantam
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  #33  
Old 15-04-15, 11:18 PM
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Bantam is very correct about the Victorian era single crown cap badge (and is also very correct about all things Prison, a very knowledgeable person and respected collector in my mind).

From all of my research and talking to people over many many years both face to face, by letter, visiting archives/museums and eventually by using the internet, you will never find a standard Pattern issued Warders Crown Cap Badge!

They were all a mish-mash from already existing insignia, be it Army, Navy or Police. I'd also include collar dogs in this theory as well.

I know the very person from the Channel Islands who once stated that they were simply all the Crowns cut from the top of no longer used Police Helmet Plates, but I've never seen this written down formally anywhere, other than what he once said, and everyone seems to accept this as the norm now. Did this happen everywhere or just in Jersey and Guernsey? We will never know, but it sounds interesting and probably correct and a process copied by what was already happening elsewhere.

I've also read that they were produced locally (especially before Centralisation of the Prison Service's), so you might have a badge from the Convict Service that was remarkably similar from one part of the country but quite different from another.

To me the most interesting Prison Crown cap badges were the cloth Navy type issued in the 1920' and early 1930's - where did these come from and how many patterns/types were there? At a guess and including those of rank I'd say 3 or 4 styles nationally maybe!

All of us on this site could easily clear a few things up by displaying the Prison Crown cap badges we each have in our collections to simply see how similar they all are, then we could probably round them down to 2 or 3 that were obviously used.

What does everyone think?
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  #34  
Old 17-04-15, 03:18 PM
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Hi HMPbadges,
Thank you for your kind words of endorsement.
Once again it as been highlighted that there are vast areas of our collecting interest where there is no information in respect of its insignia. As you rightly state the era pre and during WW1 when cloth insignia was worn by staff very little information is known.Yes I've seen photos of them but they have been indistinct and give no idea of size or colours.There is also have the question of Scottish badges I know that many of the early K/C pattern were and are still sold as Scots Guards rare pagri badges.I have never seen a version of the pattern of their badge that was worn prior to the current version again just indistinct photos.
As to your idea of displaying our version of crown badges lets see what interest there is from other forum members.
Hwyl,
Bantam
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  #35  
Old 18-04-15, 08:43 PM
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Default Jersey Prison

Regarding the QVC Jersey Prison badge, this is mentioned in one of the police publications written for one of their anniversaries. It was done upon the adoption of the white pith helmet by the St Helier Paid Police. The original blackened bronze badges were cannibalised and the round centrepiece was gilded and fitted to the helmet, the wreath was discarded and the crowns were sent to the Newgate Street Prison for use by the Warders.

One of these crowns surfaced from the Prison stores several years ago, unfortunately it was liberated by someone else before I could get a picture.

The Officer that found it described it as a gold coloured wonky crown with two loops on the back. This is a perfect description of the crown on the original Victorian Police Plate.

I do not know if the Guernsey Police Badge was also treated this way, but the QVC St Peter Port Paid Police badge is even rarer than the Jersey one.
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  #36  
Old 18-04-15, 09:03 PM
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Default Gilded Pith Helmet Badge

Here is the middle as used on the Pith Helmet
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  #37  
Old 23-04-15, 10:15 PM
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Hi gents,

I've been trying to find my memory sticks with all my prison badge photos on, this is the one I have found so far. I have three in total if memory serves me correct, one was handed down by a collector who's Great Uncle was a Warder and I bought the others from Barnstaple in North Devon and a lot of hunting in London. (Sorry if I have posted this pic before)

IMG_0079.jpg
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  #38  
Old 23-04-15, 11:33 PM
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I just found this photo. We had a post 1902 Shako loaned to us so I took this to compare badge sizes. Looks like the Gilt is peeling off as well.

Also shows a good example of the uniform colour. I just wish I could get something that looked like a Shako for display purposes, even something from a fancy dress shop etc?
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  #39  
Old 27-06-16, 09:09 PM
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Default New Jersey Prison insignia

Just popped back to let prison badge collectors know that there is a new States of Jersey Prison Service cap badge, shoulder title, tie pin and Epaulette.

Not generally available these were introduced 2015/16
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  #40  
Old 27-06-16, 09:11 PM
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Default New Jersey badge

As can be seen it is quite a bit bigger than its predecessors. Manufacturer is TKS
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Last edited by jermil; 04-07-16 at 03:57 PM.
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  #41  
Old 28-06-16, 07:53 AM
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About 25 years ago I was given a large gold bullion wire KC cap badge with an old label stuck to the back reading "H.M.P. Principal O". I'm attaching photo front and back alongside an old issue QC cap badge so you can judge the size. Presumably this KC badge would have been worn prior to the first issue custom made metal named KC badge with the EVIIIR centre? As an aside, the QC metal cap badge has been gilded.

Dave.
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File Type: jpg DSCF6128.jpg (65.7 KB, 46 views)
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  #42  
Old 28-06-16, 08:44 AM
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Hi Dave,
You are quite correct the large bullion crown badge was worn by Principal Officers until the introduction of the metal badge and small piece of red felt placed at the rear of it.
Hwyl,
Bantam
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  #43  
Old 28-06-16, 12:34 PM
altcar73 altcar73 is online now
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Gents,

It's raining like anything here and being unable to do any work in the garden decided that you may like a gander at some Colonial prison items to brighten your day (or otherwise). Apologies if I've posted any of these images previously.

Dave.
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File Type: jpg DSCF6148.jpg (113.0 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg Bahamas.jpg (89.7 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Fiji.jpg (101.9 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Cyprus.jpg (111.3 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg Gambia.jpg (86.0 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg Hong Kong.jpg (98.5 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg Kenya.jpg (93.2 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg Malta.jpg (81.0 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg Nigeria.jpg (78.1 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg Northern Rhodsesia.jpg (94.5 KB, 27 views)
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File Type: jpg Singapore.jpg (66.2 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg Somaliland.jpg (77.4 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg St. Lucia.jpg (102.6 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg Tanganyika.jpg (74.8 KB, 24 views)
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  #44  
Old 28-06-16, 02:01 PM
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Magnificent collection. They have certainly brightened up my day .Thank you Dave.
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  #45  
Old 01-07-16, 08:14 PM
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Many thanks Jermil and Altcar for sharing
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